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Thread: Kosho Principles

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    Default Kosho Principles

    I was wondering about the application of Kosho principles as they relate to real fighting. I have been studying for less than a year and have yet to see anything that I would consider so dynamic that it would define the combative elements of Kosho. Everything that would make Kosho effective it would seem can also be found in the average boxing gym. The subtle manipulations, misdirections, and off-balances, are neat and fun to practice, but against some one with any experience, you are not going to have the time to execute alot of those manuvers. Am I just not seeing the whole picture or is this a case of "the martial art you are studying was designed for a different time and conditions?"

    Just curious in starting a conversation about this as I plan to dig deeper into classes but would like other kosho practitioner's view on this.

    Thank you,
    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    It takes a long time for the subtle techniques to become effective on an aggressive opponenet. They are meant to show you where you are going. Start with gross motor skills and refine to smaller techniques as you get better.

    The principles are the same at all levels but can be implemented differently. For example, a junior student my take one or two steps to move center and perform a block/parry. A higher kyu rank might only take a half step and your goal will be to be able to move center by shifting your weight without moving your feet. This takes an understanding of kamae (posture), structure, moving center, moving twice, staying behind your sword, getting to the 90, etc.
    More Shugyo!

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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    Thanks Gakusei! That sounds like rgeat advice. One of the problems that I am having is that I have previous martial arts experience and this is definately getting in the way. I am finding myself wondering why I am merely off balancing my opponent rather than dropping him/her to the deck. In my kosho training (at this stage...remember folks, I just started this in December), i am frequently in positions where a strike would distract my opponent so that I could take advantage of his broken defense and then finish (by lock, precussion to joint, etc...). I find that the training I am being asked to do at this stage is showcasing the subtleties that I should be learning but I feel that they are annathetical to what my instincts are telling me.

    I think that it is the time that is involved that is getting to me. Even at speed, a properly executed technique against a resisting opponent could take up to five seconds. That is too long in my oppinion. I am not a UFC guy and I don't want to train to fight with some one longer than necessary. I think that is why I am fustrated at this stage. I am spending too much time tenkan, redirect, manipulate, off-balance and then MAYBE I get to strike/ knock the person down. My mind wants me to hit him but the training is taking it in another direction.

    Thanks again Gakusei for the advice. I am noticing that my movements in kosho are gettig smaller but there is always room for refinement.

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    I feel your pain. I started Kosho with a black belt in other styles. I'm going through it again right now cross training in aikijujutsu. Talk about a 180.

    When Kosho technques are executed properly, you will be well under 5 seconds. More like 1 or at most 2. Your opponent will do most of the work for you. Your job will be to anticipate (know before they do) where they are going and perform your technique.
    More Shugyo!

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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    YES! That is exactly the stuff that we are doing and some of it is driving me a bit crazy.

    On a side note, what brand of Aikijujutsu are you playing with?

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    We are training in Daito Ryu with Sensei Roy Goldberg out of NYC.
    More Shugyo!

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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    Quote Originally Posted by gakusei
    We are training in Daito Ryu with Sensei Roy Goldberg out of NYC.
    Good luck with the Daito Ryu. After the years I spent in Aikido then coming over to Kenpo it just feels odd at times.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    Hi walt, One mistake alot of kosho students make is they look at how the most senior people in the ryu move like Kyoshi Pat Kelly, Hanshi Juchnik, Or Uncle Larry and they say oh, i can move like that against a full force committed attack, but what they don't take into account is the 30 plus years that those indivudauals took to move that subtly. I have founfd that Kosho is a phemonal art and i love it, but far too many over analze and over discuss rather than just making sure they can pull of the principles in any environment. Hope this helps.

    Yours in the martial arts

    George

    forgive my spelling

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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    Hey Walt,
    Learning the fundamentals of Kosho and implementing them is a slow process.
    The trick is to take it slow.
    Sometimes it does seem easier when you find yourself in a superior position to do what comes naturally (like something you previously studied), but it is important to stay the course and really look at the principles of the art.

    I was a bouncer for 5 years......I used Kosho all of the time, from subtle manipulation to multiple attacker type situations.
    It's all about learning to be preparatory, learning how to anticipate your opponents movement and being 2 steps ahead.


    Practice the 3/8 drill all of the time.......to really make your footwork like lightning.

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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    Always my pleasure, Shawn

    Thanks for the advice.
    Regards,
    Walt

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    Kosho E Lessons is offline
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    Default Re: Kosho Principles

    Go slow... pratcitce...practice ....practice.....

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