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Thread: Pinans

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    Default Pinans

    How many of the Japanese Kempoists use the Pinan forms.

    What is your favorite of these forms.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Pinans

    I teach EPAK, but l also have a black belt in Shorinji-Ryu Karate. I like Pinan Sandan and Pinan Godan best.
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    Default Re: Pinans

    We use them. Although we tend to go in phases with pinans.

    Although 5 is pretty fun to do, I think 1 teaches a lot of kihon (basics). You can spend a lot of time learning body mechanics and bunkai on pinan 1 alone.
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    Default Re: Pinans

    I always liked Pinan NiDan. I also found that many schools like to teach it before Pinan ShoDan.
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    Default Re: Pinans

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    I always liked Pinan NiDan. I also found that many schools like to teach it before Pinan ShoDan.
    The interesting thing is that there is often a lot of debate about which one is actually Shodan and which one is in fact Nidan.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Pinans

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    The interesting thing is that there is often a lot of debate about which one is actually Shodan and which one is in fact Nidan.
    I have seen different schools switch the order.
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    Default Re: Pinans

    Hello!

    "The interesting thing is that there is often a lot of debate about which one is actually Shodan and which one is in fact Nidan."

    Actually, it really is not a case of debate in traditional Karate systems in which the Pinan (or Heian in Japanese) Kata are practised.

    Ankoh Itosu created these 5 kata in the very early 1900's. All of the Shorin-ryu systems that stem from him (Kobayashi type Shorin-ryu, i.e. Shorin-ryu Shorinkan, Shorin-ryu Shidokan, Shorin-ryu Kyudokan, etc.) other Itosu lineage systems (Okinawa Kempo, Ryu-te, etc.) as well as other branches of Shorin-ryu (Matsubayashi-ryu, Matsumura Seito Shorin-ryu, Shobayashi-ryu, etc.) all number them in the original order (i.e., Pinan Shodan is the kata that starts with a turn to the left with what looks like a left "middle block" and a right "rising block" in a left side forward neko ashi dachi; Pinan Nidan starts turning to the left with a left downward tetsui uchi in a left side forward neko ashi dachi). Please refer to any of the books or other materials that document the curriculum of these styles


    The changing of order (Pinan Shodan became Pinan Nidan & vice versa) and switching the name (Pinan to Heian - same meaning, just using Japanese pronunciation) happened in the Shotokan school. Many other schools influenced by Shotokan picked up this ordering.

    The Pinan are also ordered in the original way in systems in Japan with Itosu lineage, such as Seito Shito-ryu (founded by Kenwa Mabuni, one of Itosu's most renowned students), a s well as by other Shito-ryu groups, and Wado-ryu (although some schools of Wado-ryu teach Pinan Nidan first, but STILL refer to it as Pinan Nidan, the premise being that Pinan Nidan is easier learn; such was the case in my original dojo). It is noteworthy that Hironori Ohtsuka Sensei, the Founder of Wado-ryu chose to retain the original names and ordering of the Pinan Kata, despite being introduced to Karate by Gichin Funakoshi. This was likely due to the later influence of Mabuni Sensei.

    In any case, the classical schools of Shorin-ryu Karate-do and other related schools of Okinawan Karate-do, as well as Wado-ryu and most Shito-ryu groups, keep the original numbering order of the Pinan Kata (as described above).


    Hope this helps.


    Erik Johnstone
    Respects,

    Erik A. Johnstone
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    Default Re: Pinans

    Hello Again:

    By the way, of the Pinan, I most prefer Pinan Shodan & Pinan Yondan.
    Respects,

    Erik A. Johnstone
    Shindokan Budo
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    Default Re: Pinans

    I always liked Pinan Yondan.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Pinans

    Big fan of shodan myself...lots of basics and lots of foot work...good stuff

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Pinans

    Does anyone have a written breakdown of the form that we can post on here and then rip through the Bunkai of the Kata. Who ever posts the kata should start a new thread for it.
    Last edited by Rob Broad; 05-04-2006 at 03:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Pinans

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    Does anyone have a written breakdown of the form that we can post on here and then rip through the Bunkai of the Kata.
    I do. I'm heading to West Point tomorrow so I may not get to it until next week.
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    Default Re: Pinans

    Quote Originally Posted by E. Johnstone

    Actually, it really is not a case of debate in traditional Karate systems in which the Pinan (or Heian in Japanese) Kata are practised.



    Erik Johnstone
    Great info Erik. George Dillman mentioned that there was a lot of debate about which one was Shodan and which one was Nidan.

    To me, it is neither here nor there....it is the applications of the kata that are of utmost importance.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Pinans

    Should we do a Shorin ryu breakdown or something more along the lines of a Shotokan breakdown?
    Each one is preformed slightly different.

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    Default Re: Pinans

    Hello!

    Should we do a Shorin ryu breakdown or something more along the lines of a Shotokan breakdown?
    Each one is preformed slightly different.
    Remember that due to the rearrangement/renaming of the Pinan Kata that was applied by Gichin Funakoshi in mainland Japan, Pinan Shodan of Shorin-ryu is an entirely different kata than the Heian (Pinan) Shodan of Shotokan. The Shorin-ryu Pinan Shodan, would be analagous to Heian (Pinan) Nidan of Shotokan (or for that matter, the Pinan Nidan of Kosho-ryu; correct, Shawn?).

    Anyway, just a reminder so that everyone is on the same page.

    Respects.
    Respects,

    Erik A. Johnstone
    Shindokan Budo
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    Default Re: Pinans

    It would be bestto have the written breakdown posted first then everyone is looking at the same form regardless of the name.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Pinans

    Great info Erik. George Dillman mentioned that there was a lot of debate about which one was Shodan and which one was Nidan.To me, it is neither here nor there....it is the applications of the kata that are of utmost importance.Hello Seabrook:
    Thank you. I can see your point of view regarding the relevance of naming conventions of Karate-do kata as it relates to people outside of those traditions. However, in the case of traditional or classical Karate-do, such points are important, as each kata in a given system represents that system's specific heritage, catalogue of methods, strategies and principles, as well as the (possibility of) transmission of the same. Thanks again!

    Erik (a Canadian in exile)

    P.S. I see that you are in London, Ont. My Great Granfather lived there for years before moving out to Dutton...I haven't been that way for years.
    Respects,

    Erik A. Johnstone
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    Default Re: Pinans

    Hello!

    It would be bestto have the written breakdown posted first then everyone is looking at the same form regardless of the name.
    Yes, I understand the point. Perhaps I was making the distinction un-necessarilly.
    Respects,

    Erik A. Johnstone
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    Default Re: Pinans

    Big fan of shodan myself...lots of basics and lots of foot work...good stuff
    Lots of good locking and throwing (tuite in Okinawa Karate-do) as well! If you like the Pinan series, you would (or perhaps already do) enjoy Kusanku Dai or the Yara Kusanku of the various Shorin-ryu systems.

    Respects.
    Respects,

    Erik A. Johnstone
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    Default Re: Pinans

    Quote Originally Posted by E. Johnstone
    Hello!



    Remember that due to the rearrangement/renaming of the Pinan Kata that was applied by Gichin Funakoshi in mainland Japan, Pinan Shodan of Shorin-ryu is an entirely different kata than the Heian (Pinan) Shodan of Shotokan. The Shorin-ryu Pinan Shodan, would be analagous to Heian (Pinan) Nidan of Shotokan (or for that matter, the Pinan Nidan of Kosho-ryu; correct, Shawn?).

    Anyway, just a reminder so that everyone is on the same page.

    Respects.
    yep....in Kosho, Pinan nidan is really Pinan shodan in shorin ryu.
    I've found that there are somewhat different movements performed in the kata though.....In kosho, at the end of pinan shodan (pinan nidan in shorin) the shuto uke are done at the chudan level with kokutsu dachi, in shorin, I believe they are done at the gedan level with a neko ashi dachi.

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