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Thread: Kosho Buki-waza

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    Default Kosho Buki-waza

    On many of the web sites and from some of the people I have talked to, Kosho has an extensive weapon syllabus. Does any of the Kosho Kenshi here practice with the Yari or the Naginata? What about the yawara stick or the knife?

    Are there specific kata for these weapons and if not, is the oyo (applications) of the techniques based entirely on Kosho principles from other Kata?

    Thank you,
    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    I know that Michael Brown sensei has taught the yari and naginata. but as far as the yawara and the knife kosho concepts are used. but no specfic kata. many use filipino stick and knife work. Hanshi Juchnik has said the only specfic weapons in the kai are sword and jo.


    Hope this helps

    p.s. every instructer though has the freedom to teach weapons as they see fit, as long as it pertains to conept and principles of the art

    all the best

    George

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    I would love to study both naginata and yari. But for my taste, i would rather study under someone that has studied a classical ryu. I imagine that there is plenty of weapon specific protocols involved just as there are with the sword.

    As far as any of the knife work goes, there seem to be a lot of things that Hanshi Juchnik does with it that isnt exactly FMA, but does use kosho principles.

    shawn

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    I do remeber that there was a kata for Yawara in goshin Ju-Jitsu but it has been years since I have done it... I will have to play and see if I can remember it. If so I will see if i can't talk it out or do a video
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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    I have studied the naginata before and although it is fun, like most archaic weapons it is not practical. I was just wondering what the Kosho take on those weapons were. I was curious as to if they were taught like the Suio Ryu (japanese quick draw fencing) where certain principles of the ryu-ha that define it (sword and kogusoku while wearing short sword) absorbed the principles of another ryu (that taught naginata and kusarigama).

    But one of the big web sites (http://collectivesociety.com) I saw this

    Kobudo training in Kosho Ryu, although containing traditional Japanese weaponry such as the katana, wakizashi and tachi (swords), naginata (halberd), yari (spear), tanto (knife), bo (long staff), jo (short staff), tanjo (stick), and yubibo (finger-stick), is not limited to or by these things. The Kosho Ryu practitioner may look at any object and adapt to it.
    I was just wondering of the extent of this training. How many Kosho practitioners have seen these weapons and how often is this training accomplished?

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    I do remeber that there was a kata for Yawara in goshin Ju-Jitsu but it has been years since I have done it... I will have to play and see if I can remember it. If so I will see if i can't talk it out or do a video
    I didn't know you were a movie star! Hey a video would be cool. Please post!

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    personally, i have only studied sword, jo, and knife in class.

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    Do you do this type of training all the time or is it something that you do once in a while?

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    We cover Jo, Hanbo, sword and tanjo in class but the only formal weaponary i have been exposed to in kosho was jo and sword.

    All the best

    George

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    We cover the material monthly in class rotating the weapon.

    All the best

    George

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    Hey George,

    How well are the skills engrained after some training? What I am trying to say is how long before the student becomes combat proficient with the weaponry?

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    "What I am trying to say is how long before the student becomes combat proficient with the weaponry? "


    That would depend entirely on 1) the student, and 2) the teacher's ability to pass on the knowledge.


    With respect,
    John Evans

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    My favorite thing to teach is how to use a stick for self-defense. This could be one as long as the jo staff, or as short as a pencil.

    I do teach knife defense, but only to advanced students. Pull out a knife because someone is harrassing you and be ready to go to prison. The use of deadly force is not something to joke around about with your students.

    As for sword work we go into this a little, but mainly for discipline. No one in their right mind would walk around with a katana strapped to them in today's world.

    To me the use of wooden sticks is by far the most practical weapon for self defense for the everyday person. Of course, there's always the stun gun or pepper spray!


    With respect,
    John Evans

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    Default Re: Kosho Buki-waza

    Hi walt,

    It doe's depend on many factors, but what i try to do is break the weapon work down to kigan kaishu and hoken. Kaishu escaping , controlling and throwing and then destructive. Some students excel and become quite adept while others tolerate it. One issue with weapons within kosho is is the defense against other weapons and is their some way to test the applicabilty of what is being taught.

    all the best

    George

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    Default Reply: Kosho Buki-waza

    Quote Originally Posted by kroh
    I was just wondering what the Kosho take on those weapons were. I was curious as to if they were taught like the Suio Ryu (japanese quick draw fencing) where certain principles of the ryu-ha that define it (sword and kogusoku while wearing short sword) absorbed the principles of another ryu (that taught naginata and kusarigama).

    Regards,
    Walt
    Several years ago the initial iai techniques offered for Kosho students were the five techniques of the Keishi Ryu (all standing waza).

    However not to be restrained other sword ryu curriculum could be offered - and varied by instructor's knowledge, interest and background - MAY have included iai techniques from the Shindo Munen Ryu, the Seiti Iai Kata and either (depending what timeframe) techniques from the Muso Shinden Ryu/Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu lineage.


    The Kosho aspects to Japanese Sword study would be to look for similarities amongst the various styles, incorporate the traditional ryu movements within the pricincple of Octogon angles, and learning the overall principles of "Kumi Uchi Ken Den" or "Grappling with sword" that is in close fighting/checking tactics including Striking, Joint Locks, Throws, Pinning Techniques, Strangle Techniques and Disarming Techniques.

    John McPartland
    Last edited by Senjojutsu; 02-25-2006 at 02:02 PM.

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    Question Re: Reply: Kosho Buki-waza

    Quote Originally Posted by Senjojutsu
    Several years ago the initial iai techniques offered for Kosho students were the five techniques of the Keishi Ryu (all standing waza).

    However not to be restrained other sword ryu curriculum could be offered - and varied by instructor's knowledge, interest and background - MAY have included iai techniques from the Shindo Munen Ryu, the Seiti Iai Kata and either (depending what timeframe) techniques from the Muso Shinden Ryu/Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu lineage.


    The Kosho aspects to Japanese Sword study would be to look for similarities amongst the various styles, incorporate the traditional ryu movements within the pricincple of Octogon angles, and learning the overall principles of "Kumi Uchi Ken Den" or "Grappling with sword" that is in close fighting/checking tactics including Striking, Joint Locks, Throws, Pinning Techniques, Strangle Techniques and Disarming Techniques.

    John McPartland
    Hello John,

    Is this the official or unofficial method that the SKSK takes on studying Japanese Koryu? If this is the case, then one should assume that the SKSK does not actually teach any actual in-tact, comprehensive Koryu sword art. And if so, does that also mean that authentic rank is not available in MSR or MJER through the SKSK? If rank is available would it be rank issued from the SKSK or one of its instructors "Dojo Ranks" only. Because in order to achieve rank in these sword arts one would have to actually belong to an authentic JSA organization and rank is issued from them. Would you agree or disagree? And if the rank is available through a recognized JSA Koryu group would you be so kind as to tell us all what that issuing organization is. I am sure that anyone looking for Japanese koryu sword would like to know these things before they begin studying. Of course, it would clear up any misunderstanding that current kempo folks might have regarding the SKSK and the sword arts they are studying as well. I am looking forward to your response.

    Sincerely,
    Carl Long

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    Default Re: Reply: Kosho Buki-waza

    Thanks for joining the discussion, Long sensei, it's nice to see someone of your calibre posting here!

    I believe the only way to achieve rank is to study under a certified JSA instructor.....I'm not sure if there is one in the SKSKI.
    Unless Mike Brown counts as one.

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    Default Re: Reply: Kosho Buki-waza

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcatbonz
    Thanks for joining the discussion, Long sensei, it's nice to see someone of your calibre posting here!
    Hi Shawn,

    Thanks for the nice welcome! I always enjoy your posts as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcatbonz
    I believe the only way to achieve rank is to study under a certified JSA instructor.....I'm not sure if there is one in the SKSKI.
    Unless Mike Brown counts as one.
    John McPartland is Mike Browns senior student the last time I knew. So If there is anyone who could possibly answer the question as to Mike Browns official JSA affiliations other than Mike Brown, I am sure that it is John. Because Johns last rank would have come from the same authorized koryu group if there is one.

    John? Can you give us a little more info on Mike Brown and his affiliations?

    Regards,

    Carl Long

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    Default Re: Reply: Kosho Buki-waza

    Wow,

    Stay away for a few days and they change the look of the site and i get nothing in my inbox...silly internet.

    Thank you everyone for reponding to my questions. I appreciate your answers.

    One of the main reasons for the questions is that some of the weapons mentioned as being used by the ryu-ha, I have an interest in. I have either used them and would like to continue training with them or I have wanted to learn and never had the opportunity. As of yet, I have only seen a smattering of the weapons use in the classes I have attended and I haven't seen any of the other students (seniors or otherwise) even hint at using some of the rare ones. I was just wondering if any other Kosho Ryu Kenshi had played with those weapons on a regular basis?

    Thanks again guys for all the great responses.
    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Reply: Kosho Buki-waza

    Without naming names, i had one teacher that used to refer to sword work, but it resembled something more akin to aikiken......not that there is anything wrong with that.
    My own personal training with the sword has somewhat of a mysterious background even before i went to SKSKI......with that being said, most of the stuff i learned took place with the sword already drawn.

    My wish is to study MJER at the JCCC to see if what i learned resembles the real McCoy.

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