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Thread: EPAK and AKKI

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Les
    I'm not surprised to see the price go high.

    Everyone out there knows the AKKI are leading the way with Kenpo.

    Les
    You are welcome to your opinion about the AKKI, but I completely disagree that they "are leading the way with Kenpo". And I know thousands of people that would agree with me.


    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    ...I wasn't going to say anything.......but since you brought it up...

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion and should take pride in their particular organization; however, one shouldn't limit themselves by limiting their exposure to other ideas.

    I've gleened some positive things fromt the AKKI (like the timeing drills) as well as other organizations and other systems/styles. I believe the road travels both ways. In other words, I'm willing to share any info I have with a fellow kenpoist regardless of organizational ties in the interest of helping the art of Kenpo progress and evolve for the betterment of all.

    IMHO- =)

    BTW, no comments on the obscure "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" reference? I'm very disappointed. LOL
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    The bidder could better spend his/her money on a membership and lessons with an AKKI sanctioned instructor.
    I haven't seen a first edition, but my second edition 'quick' reference booklet is just that: a quick reference.

    No one is going to learn from these booklets about how to move like Mr. Mills. The winner will be disappointed by the lack of written concepts in the booklet; however, a collector would be ecstatic to have a piece of history in his/her collection.

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    You are welcome to your opinion about the AKKI, but I completely disagree that they "are leading the way with Kenpo". And I know thousands of people that would agree with me. Jamie Seabrook
    Yes well, you're free to disagree with me, I don't mind that at all. I'm certainly not going to get into an arguement over it.

    However, the AKKI and Paul Mills have certainly helped me to improve my abilities and I can only speak as I find.

    Theres an old saying......."Don't knock it until you've tried it"

    Les
    I'm only here to learn

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    I wasn't "knocking" the AKKI at all. I was just stating that I disagree with you that "EVERYONE" knows the AKKI is leading the way of Kenpo today. If the AKKI works for you, that's great.

    I'll stick with EPAK.


    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    I'll stick with EPAK.
    I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm not trying to start any trouble, I'm simply curious.

    Why? Why stick with EPAK? Again as I said, just curious. I will not be spewing any conversion words or anything like that. I'm just curious as to why you want to stay with EPAK.

    Thanks,
    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    IF a club, organization, or school requires the students to learn the concepts, principles, forms, and techniques originally laid out by SGM Parker is it not really EPAK? Regardless of any additional requirments that school have?

    I don't mean this as a rhetorical quesition, but I seriously don't see that there would be that much difference.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    I look at it like this. I don't perfectly conform to the EPAK curriculum. Yes we do some of the same stuff, and yes we do some stuff differently. Because I don't teach or do the exact EPAK curriculum I prefer to refer to myself as an AKKI Kenpoist. This way I don't have to hear the belly aching of those who disagree and it lets people know that the AKKI is something different than everything else out there in the Kenpo world. Not saying we're better, just that no one else conforms to our curriculum.

    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    I prefer to simply consider myself as a Kenpoist.

    Hypothetically, since each individual really has their own style, I guess I could refer to myslef as a Crippler Kenpoist. LOL. But I prefer to view all practicioners as brothers and sisters in Kenpo and willingly share anything with them that will further the art or help them to improve.

    I believe SGM Parker probably fealt the same way from what I've read. After all, he didn't confine the IKC's to just kenpo practicioners.

    IMHO
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by cloak13
    I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm not trying to start any trouble, I'm simply curious.

    Why? Why stick with EPAK? Again as I said, just curious. I will not be spewing any conversion words or anything like that. I'm just curious as to why you want to stay with EPAK.

    Thanks,
    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD
    Because it was designed by Ed Parker (Paul Mills' former instructor) and because EPAK is the best system I have ever seen if taught by a good instructor. Far be it from me to say the system is lacking or missing things like a lot of the AKKI'ers do, when most of the deficiencies are perceived only do to inadequate instruction.

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    But I prefer to view all practicioners as brothers and sisters in Kenpo and willingly share anything with them that will further the art or help them to improve.
    Absolutely.


    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Because it was designed by Ed Parker (Paul Mills' former instructor) and because EPAK is the best system I have ever seen if taught by a good instructor. Far be it from me to say the system is lacking or missing things like a lot of the AKKI'ers do, when most of the deficiencies are perceived only do to inadequate instruction.

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
    I see where you're coming from, but how do you define EPAK?

    Are you doing a 32 technique system, or a 24 or what? Mr Parker designed both.

    Are you including such techniques as Intelectual Departure? Some EPAK people say one thing and some say another.

    Mr Parker wasn't doing the same Kenpo in the seventies that he was doing in the late eighties. If he were still with us would he still be doing the same Kenpo as he was then?

    I'm not saying you're wrong, or trying to antagonise you, I'm just looking to clear my confusion.

    When does it stop being Ed Parkers Kenpo and start being something else?

    Les
    I'm only here to learn

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    Default Re: EPAK and AKKI

    All very good points.....man, you guys are forcing me to think too much. LOL.

    It appears to me that Mr. Seabrook hit on the underlying issue when he stated "the deficiencies are perceived.."

    It's a matter of individual perception and then how that perception is then related to others. Example: I teach Delayed Sword the same way to every student. The principles behind the technique do not change. However, if I used the exact same wording with each student, they would each percieve what I say differently based on individual experiences. Therefore, I have to try to find some "common ground" in order to relate to each one so that they understand.

    I don't think deficiencies is the appropriate term. There' nothing deficient about it. However, since perfection is unattainable, there is always room for improvement (even on a personal level.) I believe SGM Parker fealt that way or else he would have never evolved his traditional teachings into what would become EPAK.

    It's admirable that one would want to be loyal to their organization. I think it's human nature to want to pigeon hole things, everything in its place per se, but I don't think you can do that with Kenpo because it is different for each individual. So....when does it stop being SGM Parkers Kenpo? When you learn HOW to think for yourself and apply the principles logically and effectively making it YOUR own.

    IMHO =)
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: EPAK and AKKI

    ...pertaining to above, here is an exerpt from the preface of "Ed Parkers Encyclopedia of Kenpo" as written by Ed Parker Jr.

    "American Kenpo was invented by Mr. Parker, however he was never found to refer to Kenpo as 'his' art but rather 'our' art. He always treated it as an entity that grew steadily as a result of peoples interest in it. As American Kenpo grew, Mr. Parker not only fed his own insights into Kenpo, but his students as well. He was drawn to perpetuate the Art and encouraged others to do the same. Keeping an open mind is the only way that the Art can grow."

    "I remember him (SGM Parker) once saying 'you know son, after all the years I've spent working with Kenpo, I finally realize that what I know is nothing compared to what there is to learn.' "
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Les
    I see where you're coming from, but how do you define EPAK?

    Are you doing a 32 technique system, or a 24 or what? Mr Parker designed both.

    Are you including such techniques as Intelectual Departure? Some EPAK people say one thing and some say another.

    Mr Parker wasn't doing the same Kenpo in the seventies that he was doing in the late eighties. If he were still with us would he still be doing the same Kenpo as he was then?

    I'm not saying you're wrong, or trying to antagonise you, I'm just looking to clear my confusion.

    When does it stop being Ed Parkers Kenpo and start being something else?

    Les
    Les,

    Those are fair questions.

    I teach all of the material (all 154 techniques + 96 extensions, all of the sets, forms, and do plenty of sparring) as outlined in Infinite Insights Vol. 5.


    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: EPAK and AKKI

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    So....when does it stop being SGM Parkers Kenpo? When you learn HOW to think for yourself and apply the principles logically and effectively making it YOUR own.

    IMHO =)
    That's one of the main goals of EPAK. The techniques are ideas, not rules, and once we understand the concepts and principles, we should be able to create techniques into the thousands without thinking.


    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Les
    Yes well, you're free to disagree with me, I don't mind that at all. I'm certainly not going to get into an arguement over it.

    However, the AKKI and Paul Mills have certainly helped me to improve my abilities and I can only speak as I find.

    Theres an old saying......."Don't knock it until you've tried it"

    Les
    How about if it isn't broken dont fix it. What is with all these organizations coming up with diferent techniques and not sticking with the old way. I went to a AKKI school and some of the things that they are doing do work and than again somethings are just a waste of motion.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    I went to a AKKI school and some of the things that they are doing do work and than again somethings are just a waste of motion.
    Just curious, what would you consider wasted motion?

    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by cloak13
    Just curious, what would you consider wasted motion?

    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD
    Wasted motion is doing things that are uneeded. Event though the EP system has a lot of moves in a technique for the most part it is used for a reason.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: AKKI Manuals on Ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    How about if it isn't broken dont fix it.
    That's a good saying, but does it apply to Kenpo? Kenpo was designed to be continually evolving. Did'nt Mr Parker himself continually 'Fix it' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    What is with all these organizations coming up with diferent techniques and not sticking with the old way.
    Before Mr Parker passed away, and most of us were in the IKKA, didn't THAT organisation come up with different techniques and not stick to the old way?

    If you stick to the 'old way' you are traditionalising Kenpo, which is not something Mr Parker wanted.

    Henry Ford invented the Model T, which was a fine car in it's day, but I wouldn't want to make a journey in one now.

    Les
    I'm only here to learn

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