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Thread: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

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    Default Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    *Taking Brother Johns advice I will start by adding some of my training experience and how it has helped or hurt my Kenpo training.*

    When I moved from the Northwest to the South - I was left without a kenpo school in my region. I studied Pa Kua Kung FU, TKD, some BJJ and Judo - always keeping my previous kenpo experience at the forefront of my mind.

    Pa Kua helped me to relax and concentrate on breath control and internal power, concepts that have continued to help me now that I have begun my kenpo traing once again. It was too slow for me and I eventually left the program.

    TKD improved my kicking speed and power but significantly reduced the punching and striking capability that I once had. I went onto to Black, but will not go further in the system.

    BJJ gave me more comfort on the ground, though I don't like fighting on the ground (being tall). I will probably seek out other opportunities to improve on the ground.

    Judo gave nme a few more weapons in my arsenal should I get tied up with someone standing upright - but I would prefer to strike my way out of it first.

    Please add your experiences and insight to this thread.

    -Kenpoist

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    I started in TKD through black belt. Kenpo for about 8 years now. I also have experience in Aikido, Hapkido, MJER, Shindo Muso Ryu Jojutsu.

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    My main areas of cross-training:

    Kajukenbo (Kajukenbo-Kenpo branch) - I'm not even sure I consider this cross-training, the two are so closely related that I pretty much moved seamlessly from one to the other.

    Brazilian Jiu-jitsu - A must, maybe somehow/somewhen it might "violate a kenpo principle" but it works, and thats what matters to me.

    Kali/Escrima/Arnis - My experience is that this flows almost seamlessly into my kenpo, a must for someone looking to expand their knowledge about edged/impact weapons. I would consider Kali my main area of focus in my training right now.

    Lamont
    Pekiti Tirsia Kali and Kenpo Karate
    www.blackbirdmartialarts.com

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    In my opinion, and it is fine for others to disagree, good cross training will point out something you already knew but just didn't realize it. Modern Arnis definitely helps your flow, which is smothing every kenpo practioner needs, many people picked up that flow with out training in another style, it may have taken longer for them to get it but it was there. One of the down falls with cross training is contradictory principles. For beginners it can be very hard to differentiate on what is most important.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    ... good cross training will point out something you already knew but just didn't realize it. Modern Arnis definitely helps your flow, which is smothing every kenpo practioner needs, many people picked up that flow with out training in another style, ... . One of the down falls with cross training is contradictory principles. For beginners it can be very hard to differentiate on what is most important.
    Mostly agree here. I used to train a lot with other systems/stylists. What I found was that everything they could show me was in Kenpo somewhere. It just gives you a different perspective on what you do. (Same is usually true for them, also.)

    I've worked with, and done full contact stick fighting with, different FMA groups. I already had the flow from AK, but when a stick is whizzing at me, I found it got a lot more continuouse, real quick! The biggest problem I had was adjusting the axis of my neutral bow out 45'. In the heat of battle, I usually defaulted to the main axis, and got wasted on my lead side.

    As to the contradictory principles, I allways enjoyed analizing their system and comparing what they do to Kenpo. Thinking about it in that context usually helped me to avoid the confusion.

    The reason I like American Kenpo is that it is complete, and from the start it demands understanding as well as performance.

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    In my opinion, and it is fine for others to disagree, good cross training will point out something you already knew but just didn't realize it. Modern Arnis definitely helps your flow, which is smothing every kenpo practioner needs, many people picked up that flow with out training in another style, it may have taken longer for them to get it but it was there. One of the down falls with cross training is contradictory principles. For beginners it can be very hard to differentiate on what is most important.
    I have recently started cross training in Moderrn Arnis and I find it to be a great fit for Kenpo. I also like the flow both empty handed and with the sticks that arnis brings.

    I have had some exposure to wing chun as well. It is amazing how fluid the system is, but I see many similarities between wing chun and kenpo. They have incredibly fast hands and low kicks too. I'm not sure if I will ever officially do wing chun training, but it is interesting to work with wing chuner's sometimes.

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    As I am only a blue belt I am not currently cross training. Should I be? It seems like between work, family and my EPAK studies it would be hard to find the time.

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    I believe that one should not even think about cross training until they have a solid grasp of the system they are currently learning. At what point does this happen, I'd say wait until after black and even then be cautious. I am cross training to complement my kenpo skills.

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    I moved over 200 miles away from my instructor. I came across a Brazilian JJ, JKD and Philippino arts practitioner who is very competent. I've rolled and trained with him for several years. Not as an instructor student, but as friends and students. I teach him what I know and he teaches me what he knows. It has excelled my understanding of all martial science.
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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    Personally I good cross-training can be very beneficial. However, I also think good cross-training means the student has the money, time, and a robust enough personal interest to make a worthwhile commitment to both arts. Cross-training IMO isn't something that should be mandated. It's up to the student to find the path that is most workable for them.

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    Talking Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    Crosstraining is good, m'kay?

    I have expored a variety of FMA including but not limited to...

    Modern Arnis - which indeed did wonders to both improve flow and decrease ateral biasing...(Strong side/weak side) It was also my first real exposure to many small-circle applications and juijitsu-inspired controls and joint manipulations.

    Balintawok- Developed an appreciation close range weapons theory and disarms.

    Largo Mano Abiniki (long 40" filipino fencing) - What an experience this was! The biggest single benefit to this training was, it helped me identify shortest paths or Economy of Motion. You can't flip a 40 inch stick around the same way you flourish a 28-29 inch stick. When I put the long stick down, the short sticks blazed. This also helped re-enforce the importance of a fundemental understanding of ranges.

    Combat Arnis- A slightly harder-edged approach to Modern Arnis almost.

    Lightening Scientific - While I regret not having gotten to work with these guys a lot more, they inspired some core multiple-strike kenpo-esque drills which we developed based upon exposure to them.

    Animal Systems Gun-fu- I studied the classical 5 animals, as well as some very unclassical animal styles - this helped to develope the mindset and survival instincts as well as appreciate the natural, time proven movements of nature's hunters. This is also where I learned most of what I know about practical nerve strikes, pressure points and breaking techniques.

    I find the kenpo I now do, is liberally spiced with aspects of each of these influences. Most, if not all of my techniques should be readly recognizable to someone from my system, yet there is a definate seasoning that infuses everything I do, bassed on the cumulative experience.

    I have also begun..(well, 10+ years in the making is but a beginning, I figure in another 20 years or so we'll have a growing baby art!) to co-develope our own system of Living Arnis which takes all of the various influences into account. It's more closely related to kenpo, in both structure and movement than any other system I've previously been exposed to. I realize there are probably no really innovative, new ideas in the world of martial arts, but what we are doing is not techniques we learned from anyone else. I am sure someone, somewhere will see the techniques we are doing and go.."HEY! We've been doing that for 200 years!" Okay. Cool. lol Now we're doing it, and doing it to the beat of our own kenpo drums.
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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    I've trained in numerous arts, but I never really considered it "cross-training". Rather, it was more like pursuing multiple interests.

    Once you train in more that one art, I think they will each influence the other, whether you want them to or not. Once you have some knowledge and experience in something, it permeates all others.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    I've trained in numerous arts, but I never really considered it "cross-training". Rather, it was more like pursuing multiple interests.

    Once you train in more that one art, I think they will each influence the other, whether you want them to or not. Once you have some knowledge and experience in something, it permeates all others.
    Yeah, I look at my training pretty much the same way. Training is training. The reason I've stuck with Kenpo so long is that my previous and new expereiences blend so well with it. Hey, I guess if something works it works eh?
    "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh, that's karate...it doens't matter what style you call it." -Ed Parker
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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Yeah, I look at my training pretty much the same way. Training is training. The reason I've stuck with Kenpo so long is that my previous and new expereiences blend so well with it. Hey, I guess if something works it works eh?
    "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh, that's karate...it doens't matter what style you call it." -Ed Parker
    Pretty good outlook there CC. Totally away from the training side of the issue, if you are attacked, and you go home while the attacker goes to the hospital or wherever ... You can't really comment on anything other than the efficacy of the applied technique (and I use that term loosely).

    It sometimes seems to me that rather than pick up technique from other styles, that the principles would be a good thing to study... But then I might be wrong there...

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    Shotokan: helped with stances and the importance of them early on in my training.

    Moo Duk Kwan (TKD): helped with my kicking ability and how to develop power from the core.

    Hapkido: taught me how to take advantage of opportunity and blend it into my kenpo where it can apply.

    Choy Lay Fut: taught me the value of using a variety of weapons and how it applies to your empty hands.

    Sanuces Ryu: showed me that kenpo isnt the only down and dirty business art for the streets.

    Cross training to me is invaluable and if you have an open mind you can see valuable things in most systems if you look deep enough.

    It also makes me appreciate the art of Kenpo even more.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Cross Training with your Kenpo Training

    The main area I've cross-trained in is Tai Chi. THe slow movements and focus has really helped me understand power generation through hip movements and rootedness. It has also helped me build strength in my legs. In the internal arts program where I do this, we also do some PaQua, which has really helped me with my twist stances and fluidity of movement. I tried some kungfu at this place, but found it quite awkward and a bit impractical. Many of the Chin-Na that were taught did not come close to the fluidity or impact of similar kenpo techniques and precipitated my return to kenpo.

    At the kenpo place, we have also had seminars on stick and knife work, some Aikido, and even some RMA, but not enough to say that I've "practiced" any of them.
    "Let the wookie win."

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