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Thread: pace of ranking...

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    Default pace of ranking...

    Hey teachers, gots a question...

    Out of curiousity, how long does it take, on average to move between belts...I mean, I know it varies from person to person, belt to belt and school to school but this is why I ask...

    While looking at schools for my family I have went into some big chain-store "McDojo's" for lack of a better put-down name and seen kids, I mean young kids, with black belts, which I find just diminishes the meaning of a black belt altogether, and I have talked to parents who's kids get like a belt a month, these places created multiple degrees to each belt. I see this as finding more ways to suck parents out of money for little-to-no benefit of the child, even harmful with the false sense of security the kids get from thinking they are Bruce Lee when they are not.

    The school I chose belts slower and the instrutor seems to have a much greater eye for detail...

    All of this has made me curious, the average student, if they train 5 or 6 hours a week, how many months between belts would a real gym, or dojo, have for a student?



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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Our school is probably not the best example so I am not going to explain the logistics and times there........

    I believe yellow should be a rank achieved after a couple of months. It motivates the student, gives incentive for their initial work, encourages them to stay in the fight and train further. We have someone who due to inconsitancy has been a white belt over a year, she probably shows up once or twice a month which is fine if that is what she wants, but it is hard to get her proficient in any material with that sporatic a pattern of training.
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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    We have 9 kyu ranks. Yellow takes 2-3 months and each get progressively longer with ikkyu to shodan taking 6+ months.

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Up to Blue belt we alow our stusents to test every 2-3 months. After blue belt we make them wait 4-5 months. I know for me in the begining up to 1st black I was going 5 days a week and learned everything very quickly, so they allowed me to test faster and that is why I got my 1st black in 3 1/2 years.
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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Quote Originally Posted by WristTwist
    Hey teachers, gots a question...

    Out of curiousity, how long does it take, on average to move between belts...I mean, I know it varies from person to person, belt to belt and school to school but this is why I ask...

    While looking at schools for my family I have went into some big chain-store "McDojo's" for lack of a better put-down name and seen kids, I mean young kids, with black belts, which I find just diminishes the meaning of a black belt altogether, and I have talked to parents who's kids get like a belt a month, these places created multiple degrees to each belt. I see this as finding more ways to suck parents out of money for little-to-no benefit of the child, even harmful with the false sense of security the kids get from thinking they are Bruce Lee when they are not.

    The school I chose belts slower and the instrutor seems to have a much greater eye for detail...

    All of this has made me curious, the average student, if they train 5 or 6 hours a week, how many months between belts would a real gym, or dojo, have for a student?
    If you have to choose between a school that gives more eye to detail compared to one that has set requirements, I'd go with the one for detail! Many times people will hear that there is a set time between belts and they will hold you to that when that time frame is up, even though their material may be minimal at best. I'd rather have the student wait an extra month and get the material down, instead of having them test because that time is up and have them look like crap on the test.

    Mike

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    If you have to choose between a school that gives more eye to detail compared to one that has set requirements, I'd go with the one for detail! Many times people will hear that there is a set time between belts and they will hold you to that when that time frame is up, even though their material may be minimal at best. I'd rather have the student wait an extra month and get the material down, instead of having them test because that time is up and have them look like crap on the test.
    Yes, that is exactly how I felt, getting belts because you punched your time clock seems silly, I have seen young kids with brown belts that are whiney kids with no real skills other than parents that pay for all the tests and force them to go to class...just doesn't seem to do a valuable service for martial arts in general...it's all gotten so watered down and lame because of those types of schools...when I was looking for a gym I wanted a REAL education, not social hour...



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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Quote Originally Posted by WristTwist
    Yes, that is exactly how I felt, getting belts because you punched your time clock seems silly, I have seen young kids with brown belts that are whiney kids with no real skills other than parents that pay for all the tests and force them to go to class...just doesn't seem to do a valuable service for martial arts in general...it's all gotten so watered down and lame because of those types of schools...when I was looking for a gym I wanted a REAL education, not social hour...
    Personally, I really don't see much of a value in having someone that's 4yo doing the Martial Arts. Many times, the students are unable to comprehend even the basic material, and the class turns into more of a day care while the parents take off for that half hour class. Its those same people that then wonder why their child is not progressing.

    If you're looking for a school, it would be a good idea, unless you already have, to watch a few classes in any school that you're interested in.

    In closing, I'm not saying that the arts are a bad thing for kids, just that in some cases, it would be better off, for both the parent and child to wait until they were a little older. They just may get more out of it.

    Mike

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Quote Originally Posted by MJS
    Personally, I really don't see much of a value in having someone that's 4yo doing the Martial Arts. Many times, the students are unable to comprehend even the basic material, and the class turns into more of a day care while the parents take off for that half hour class. Its those same people that then wonder why their child is not progressing.
    OK, well, this is going to veer off topic a bit (imagine that on a forum, how rare) but I completely and entirely disagree. I joined a gym with a family membership so I figured I'd have the 4 year old take it and see what happened, it's a class for just 3 and 4 year olds...and I am amazed at what she has learned, how much her coordination and basic motor skills have improved. I covered this a couple hours ago here Children's Programs but, suffice it to say, don't underestimate the capabilities of a four year old, I never will again...

    That said, yes, it's not like she is learning "self-defense" yet, but is learning a good foundation in Kenpo at a very young and impressionable age that could help her greatly in later years having started so young.

    In my opinion...



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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Quote Originally Posted by MJS
    Personally, I really don't see much of a value in having someone that's 4yo doing the Martial Arts. Many times, the students are unable to comprehend even the basic material, and the class turns into more of a day care while the parents take off for that half hour class. Its those same people that then wonder why their child is not progressing.

    If you're looking for a school, it would be a good idea, unless you already have, to watch a few classes in any school that you're interested in.

    In closing, I'm not saying that the arts are a bad thing for kids, just that in some cases, it would be better off, for both the parent and child to wait until they were a little older. They just may get more out of it.

    Mike
    I think its depends on what your looking for my four year old does class two times a week .
    I like it becouse she is getting use to doing push ups set up and just working out . Ya she learns how to punch, kick and blocks.
    Most of all Its a good environment for her to workout in with other kids .
    Im not look for her to learn self defense at that age but it is a good start.
    for her.
    I know what you mean, it just depends on how the school sells the class.

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Having a small school, with lots of individualized attention my students start of pretty quickly, about Blue Belt things slow down. When we had a larger school it was an average of 2 - 4 months per belt level.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    IF all things are IDEAL:
    yellow probably 2, 2 1/2 months.
    Orange - Green 4-6 months.
    Browns: one year.
    Black: one year.

    but........everyone is an individual and the "IDEAL" hardly Never happens.
    this timeframe is nothing more than a rough guestimate.....IF that..
    Sometimes it's sooner, sometimes it's much later than these guesses.


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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    [quote=Brother John]IF all things are IDEAL:
    yellow probably 2, 2 1/2 months.
    Orange - Green 4-6 months.
    Browns: one year.
    Black: one year.


    thats about right for us to

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Given that the school I trained at was very small each person had their own pace of learning. I flew through the colored belts and only began to slow down when reaching Blue belt. Where in contrast other students stayed at yellow or orange belt for several months. The reason I was able to advance at the pace that I did was because about 1/3 of all my class time was spent 1 on 1 with either the head instructor or a black belt. The remaining 2/3 was spent with other students, usually with me leading them.

    I enjoyed this very much, no expectation of time for learning the material. When I get around to opening my own school I intend to keep it a very small student base.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Quote Originally Posted by dubljay
    I enjoyed this very much, no expectation of time for learning the material. When I get around to opening my own school I intend to keep it a very small student base.
    agreed, it's better that way. A small, tight-nit group. Helps a BUNCH. BUT: when you have ONE bad apple (bad attitude usually) then it effects the whole of the school all the more.
    so when it's small, you have to be selective.

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    Last edited by Brother John; 12-04-2005 at 11:04 AM.
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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Quote Originally Posted by dubljay
    Given that the school I trained at was very small each person had their own pace of learning. I flew through the colored belts and only began to slow down when reaching Blue belt. Where in contrast other students stayed at yellow or orange belt for several months. The reason I was able to advance at the pace that I did was because about 1/3 of all my class time was spent 1 on 1 with either the head instructor or a black belt. The remaining 2/3 was spent with other students, usually with me leading them.
    Sounds VERY much like the situation I am in now, I got in the gym when he first opened it right at the beginning of this year, I've had tons of 1 on 1 classes and am always there, so it sounds like it should not be a huge surprise that I am likely going to have my blue belt by christmas or so (though my gym does not have a yellow belt, just white to orange), but I should expect to slow down after that since not as many people my rank to train with, my time helping the lower ranks and the fact more people are starting all the time...

    The owner wants to grow it bigger, and I pitch in and help wherever he needs it if I can, working with young white belts, helping him fix up the gym, doing their web site, etc...but honestly, I'd like to see it stay small, I like the personal attention...but then, I'm not the one paying the bills for the place...

    At least I got a chance to get some good base knowledge right at the beginning...thats gotta count for something



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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    My school was very small when I started and I had aton of one on one with upper belts/jr instructors, etc. I flew thru till about blue. We got a influx of folks and things got standardised for the school, timeframe-wise.
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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Hi All,
    I think I've been pretty lucky with my instructor. I have had him most of the time by myself. He is starting to grow now though. I,ve been in kenpo since last April and I'm going to be testing for blue belt soon. The blue belt material is a little tougher for me. We do 24 -Techs per belt. I think it will only get harder for me.


    Tad Werneburg

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tad
    We do 24 -Techs per belt. I think it will only get harder for me.
    Tad Werneburg
    Hey Tad, WELCOME to KenpoTalk! Glad to have ya...

    I understand your feelings. Sometimes the amount of material can seem daunting. But then again the material you have yet to gain will simply build upon the material that you have already gotten down pat. Also: being the senior most student of your instructor you'll be crucial to the school.... you're the example and someone to help the newbies understand and grow in the art. In helping others understand you yourself will gain more insights and understanding.
    Sounds like you've only got "UP" from here!

    Hope to read a lot from you about your journey.

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Quote Originally Posted by WristTwist
    Sounds VERY much like the situation I am in now, I got in the gym when he first opened it right at the beginning of this year, I've had tons of 1 on 1 classes and am always there, so it sounds like it should not be a huge surprise that I am likely going to have my blue belt by christmas or so (though my gym does not have a yellow belt, just white to orange), but I should expect to slow down after that since not as many people my rank to train with, my time helping the lower ranks and the fact more people are starting all the time...

    The owner wants to grow it bigger, and I pitch in and help wherever he needs it if I can, working with young white belts, helping him fix up the gym, doing their web site, etc...but honestly, I'd like to see it stay small, I like the personal attention...but then, I'm not the one paying the bills for the place...

    At least I got a chance to get some good base knowledge right at the beginning...thats gotta count for something
    Hey basics are where its at man.. if your basics are weak all else will be weak too. Kudos to you for helping out your instructor like that. I've been in the same situation. I was there so often that it was a running joke that I lived above the office.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: pace of ranking...

    Brother John,

    Its nice to finally post a little. The last time I talked to you on the phone, you were changing jobs and moving. I really meant to get down to see you guys from Nebraska when I lived there. Life has a way of changing things. We moved to Iowa and I happened to find an EPAK instructor in a town near me. I couldn't believe my luck. I still would like to come down sometime and see what you guys in the AKKI are doing. I hope all is well with you. Take care!

    Tad Werneburg

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