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Thread: Lineages besides Parker...

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    Default Lineages besides Parker...

    I have been studying Kenpo for a while now (months, not years), and am curious here, who of Chow's Black Belts went on to teach their own styles...I am training in a non-Parker system, the exact lineage has been hard to get out of my instructor due to some very hard feelings between he and his Sensei, so he is evasive on the subject.

    I do know it's a non-Parker system, but his instructor learned from a Chow Black Belt, we are learning absolutely no Kata, but just techniques, learned in southern USA, Arizona to be exact...and one other thing I noticed is different is the intensity of "the Pin" after belt tests seems much more physical than in most modern Kenpo styles, it seems the world of political correctness has also lessened that in many systems...we get hit, often and hard...

    I will eventually pry and annoy my instructor until he tells me someday, but the way I see it, it's really not important to know to learn the art, so I am on a self-motivated quest to find out a little more about the lineages...it seems each Black belt down the teaching line changes and refines the style a little bit to suit different needs, so the exact lineage seems irrelevent, just interesting.

    based on what I have seen so far, it does seem that Kenpo is one of the more progressive and evolving style out there...

    ANyone have any lineage info to share that may help me?
    Last edited by WristTwist; 11-28-2005 at 09:24 AM.



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    You should contact John Bishop and/or see if you can get him to reply to this thread. He is a member of Kenpotalk and he lists his homepage as
    http://www.kajukenboinfo.com/

    Also, you should check out
    http://www.karaho.com/home.html

    Their homepage states " Kara Ho Kempo is headed by Grandmaster Sam Kuoha, who trained under Professor Chow for many years and was chosen by Professor to lead the Kara Ho system."

    This is a good question. Although I would caution you to be more interested in your lineage and not to disregard them. Arthur C. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced techonoly is indistinguishable from magic." And I think this holds true for Martial Arts. Anything sufficiently better than what you already know, may look like a well-developed, practical system, but it might not be. Knowing where it came from and how and why it developed should help you evaluate its usefulness. When I teach class I often say "Don't take my word for it, if I can't prove that this works by showing you how to make it work, then we both need to ask the Head Instructor and see what is wrong." This is a complex issue (probably best pursued on another thread) but I hope I have given you some good info to check into your history. Good luck. Thanks for the post.

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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Thanks for the reply and information, I will surely check it out.

    I am more interested then I lead on, if I wasn't I wouldn't really be asking at all but I do understand your point. I don't just take my instructors word for the fact that something is practical or not, I have many friends that study different styles, we have compared, slow-sparred and talked a lot...and quite honestly, out of all the goofy styles and techniques out there, I have chosen Kenpo from this particular instructor because it is the most realistic...the stuff some of my firends study might be great for the dojo, but I really don't see it in real life.

    I should also add my instructor, and others at the gym, are mixed martial arts fighters, we also work on Kickboxing, JiuJitsu (Royce Gracie Network Gym), No Hold Barred training, so, well, we do get actual fighting

    Thanks for the info, cool site you've got here.



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Thanks Wrist Twist and welcome to Kenpotalk. The studying that you describe sounds excellent to me. I have some friends who have recently invited me to workout with them monthly. Kenpo, Muy Thai, Wing Chun, and some other styles will also be present. Some of the guys are Monks who fight every day. I am hoping I can learn something and not get injured. Bruce Lee reccomended "experience" like this and I believe that Mr. Parker also cross-trained a lot but depending on who you ask and when they studied with him they will tell you that he didn't reccomend or allow cross-training. So heads up if you ask about that.

    I think you are on a good path.

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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Thanks much, I feel like I have learned a lot in the past few months...and have thus far had a lot of fun doing it. My wife, and two daughters (ages 4 and 7) are also taking Kenpo with some kickboxing and grappling, but primarily Kenpo. It's been a lot of fun for us all.

    "I am hoping I can learn something and not get injured." - ummm, ya, good luck with that hehehehehe

    It's to the point at our house where every morning I wake up after a night of training and my family asking me to show them my new bruises.

    It sounds like your invitation is great, MuayThai is great fun and a great cardio workout to boot...I have found it helping my Kenpo making my strikes and kicks a little better and stronger. If you get a chance to Grapple, do that too...I do that and use mascles I previously didn't even know I had...unless you already do grapple, then you know what I am talking about...

    Not allowing cross training sounds weird, even bad...no system has everything...or, no system I have seen to this point anyway. I would be skeptical of any instructor that told me not to take other styles...unless it started interfering with my current schedule of training too much...I have taken a few classes with friends and it's fun as heck seeing how other people do it...my instructor thinks it's great when I go check out other styles and often asks me all about the visit...as he has black belts in Shotokan and TKD, a brown is somethin else...and some other belts in other stuff, but doesn't like the arts themselves for practical use...he doesn't talk about the others much other than to say they have proiven themselves impractical for him...but he always encourages people to check them out if they want to.
    Last edited by WristTwist; 11-28-2005 at 10:36 AM.



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Do you have any of the names of the techniques you are doing. That might be able to narrow things down.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Well, lets see...for Orange ranking here are some:
    Snapping Twain, Crash of Eagle, Headlock, Locking the Arm, Dagger and some others...also including Square Horse and blocks...

    Purple was Monkey Elbow, Scimitar, Darkness, Opponents at Sides, a couple Full Nelson defenses just called Full Nelson A ans Full Nelson B...and some others.

    For Blue I have been working on Crouching Falcon, Two Headed Serpent, Flash of Silver (knife disarm) Gun Attack (gun disarm) and some others...

    does that help at all?



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Many of them look to be Tracy's techniques. Crash of Eagle, Headlock, Locking the Arm, Monkey Elbow, Scimitar, Darkness, Opponents at Sides, Full Nelson, Crouching Falcon, and Two Headed Serpent all come from the Tracy system.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    SWEET! OK, I have a lead here...thanks much.

    I would love to go to class tonight and be able to say "neener, neener, I figured it out"

    Thanks, if there are any good tracy system links, pass 'em on please, now, I am off to do some Googlewackin'.

    Thanks peeps!



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    ARGH, this web site is nasty lookin http://www.tracyskarate.com/



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Quote Originally Posted by WristTwist
    SWEET! OK, I have a lead here...thanks much.

    I would love to go to class tonight and be able to say "neener, neener, I figured it out"

    Thanks, if there are any good tracy system links, pass 'em on please, now, I am off to do some Googlewackin'.

    Thanks peeps!

    Try this link www.tracyskenpokarate.com
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Ah, thanks, much appreciated.



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    All I read about on that site are Kata Requirements for belts...no familiar names and we train no Katas...hmmm, can't find any technique info...I'll keep diggin tho.

    EDIT: naver mind, I am starting to get the picture here...interesting. Thanks a lot for the info.



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Try this link http://www.tracyskarate.com/beltsyst...er/beltreq.htm

    I know it has all teh techniques laid out for you.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Yep, it certainly looks like a spin off of that system changed a bit thru the hands of a couple people. Thanks much, very interesting.



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Well, it's not Tracy, I got that much out of him along with a "you'll find out in time". Not sure what went down between him and his Sensei, but was major enough where he won't share a lot of info...yet...sad, really.



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Well the names of the techniques come from the Tracy system or maybe the Traco system.

    Of the techniques you gave could you give a rough breakdown of them
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Not really sure how to break it down specifically...headlock, armlock, full nelson and such are pretty self explanitory...I do remember Purple Belt techniques really having a lot of the same combinations of moves, one being fist to the groin, followed by the next hard doing and eye gouge, and then the groin shot hand flipping up under the eye gouge smacking in the face with the back of the hand...I remember it cuz it's so much a theme of that belt I do it from muscle memory now...orange (there is no yellow in this system) is a lot of concentration on stances and blocks along with some chops and such. Also every technique ends with a "cover off", that being stepping back in a twist stance then dragging the back foot while throwing a backknuckle at the attacker in a stance ready to go again...also something that has developed into muscle memory. Orange seems to be more blocks that now working on blue belt techniques are becoming strikes.

    Again, there is no kata either...but I think that was a change from the original style, I think there were a couple kata originally, but my instructors Sensei removed them due to impracticality.



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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    Quote Originally Posted by WristTwist
    Not really sure how to break it down specifically...headlock, armlock, full nelson and such are pretty self explanitory...I do remember Purple Belt techniques really having a lot of the same combinations of moves, one being fist to the groin, followed by the next hard doing and eye gouge, and then the groin shot hand flipping up under the eye gouge smacking in the face with the back of the hand...I remember it cuz it's so much a theme of that belt I do it from muscle memory now...orange (there is no yellow in this system) is a lot of concentration on stances and blocks along with some chops and such. Also every technique ends with a "cover off", that being stepping back in a twist stance then dragging the back foot while throwing a backknuckle at the attacker in a stance ready to go again...also something that has developed into muscle memory. Orange seems to be more blocks that now working on blue belt techniques are becoming strikes.

    Again, there is no kata either...but I think that was a change from the original style, I think there were a couple kata originally, but my instructors Sensei removed them due to impracticality.
    Those are definitely Tracy techniques.

    May we ask who your instructor is?
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Lineages besides Parker...

    You can ask yes...

    But before I answer i think I should talk to him...



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