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Thread: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

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    Default Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Training Horse stance:

    Right upward block:

    Right Inward Block:

    Right Extended Outward Block:

    Right Outside Downward Block ( palm facing down)

    Right back Elbow:

    Right Push Down :

    What is the path or line of execution? ( Linear or Circular)?

    If they are linear have you ever done the set with circular figure 8 patterns?
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Training Horse stance:

    Right upward block:

    Right Inward Block:

    Right Extended Outward Block:

    Right Outside Downward Block ( palm facing down)

    Right back Elbow:

    Right Push Down :

    What is the path or line of execution? ( Linear or Circular)?

    If they are linear have you ever done the set with circular figure 8 patterns?
    Yes indeed, I've done it (and almost always do it) with a circular figure 8 pattern.

    I might also add that I like to think of the outward block as being double, first a vertical then rolling to an extended outward block.

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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    Yes indeed, I've done it (and almost always do it) with a circular figure 8 pattern.

    I might also add that I like to think of the outward block as being double, first a vertical then rolling to an extended outward block.

    your Brother
    John
    mmmmm, so how would this apply to say delayed sword or sword of destruction? Would it change the path of action of the hand sword?
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    mmmmm, so how would this apply to say delayed sword or sword of destruction? Would it change the path of action of the hand sword?
    You BET it can!!!! ((( GOOD thread here too my friend! )))
    Mr. Mills has spoken much (As I know you know) about the usefulness of the tear-drop pattern, which the figure eight is simply two tear-drop patterns pointing toward one another. If used this path of execution to the inward block and the outward sword hand of delayed sword you end up with greater acceleration and thus a faster technique with more penetration (due to the increase velocity and the 'english' you put on the tail-end of the motion.

    I consider this method of execution to really stick to what Mr. Parker said about the goal of Kenpo:
    To round of corners and elongate circles. BUT: It's not the best thing to show MOST beginners this way. I think it's best to start them off WITH the corners, and then lead them to round them off & elongate later.

    This figure eight pattern needs to be kept 'tight' though, in order to be kept economically sound, which is another reason I think it's best to not teach this at first. One of the first objectives in teaching a new student is to get them to automatically think in terms of economy of motion FIRST; which leads them to develop good form. Lines are easier conceptually and mechanically for the neophyte to begin with.

    Something I really like is to apply this type of motion to "Thundering Hammers" !!!! Do you do that sir? (or anyone else?) If so.....how?


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    Last edited by Brother John; 12-10-2007 at 11:11 AM. Reason: B-kus I kaint spel no good
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    You BET it can!!!! ((( GOOD thread here too my friend! )))
    Mr. Mills has spoken much (As I know you know) about the usefulness of the tear-drop pattern, which the figure eight is simply two tear-drop patterns pointing toward one another. If used this path of execution to the inward block and the outward sword hand of delayed sword you end up with greater acceleration and thus a faster technique with more penetration (due to the increase velocity and the 'english' you put on the tail-end of the motion.

    I consider this method of execution to really stick to what Mr. Parker said about the goal of Kenpo:
    To round of corners and elongate circles. BUT: It's not the best thing to show MOST beginners this way. I think it's best to start them off WITH the corners, and then lead them to round them off & elongate later.

    This figure eight pattern needs to be kept 'tight' though, in order to be kept economically sound, which is another reason I think it's best to not teach this at first. One of the first objectives in teaching a new student is to get them to automatically think in terms of economy of motion FIRST; which leads them to develop good form. Lines are easier conceptually and mechanically for the neophyte to begin with.

    Something I really like is to apply this type of motion to "Thundering Hammers" !!!! Do you do that sir? (or anyone else?) If so.....how?


    Your Brother
    John

    Good stuff John.
    So the question is this: Does the tear drop path go over the top, or under?
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    Yes indeed, I've done it (and almost always do it) with a circular figure 8 pattern.

    I might also add that I like to think of the outward block as being double, first a vertical then rolling to an extended outward block.

    your Brother
    John
    So John,

    Do you ever look at how the elbow moves for the push down block?
    How does this relate to striking set 2 ? mmmmmmm
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    So John,

    Do you ever look at how the elbow moves for the push down block?
    How does this relate to striking set 2 ? mmmmmmm
    I THINK I know what you're indicating, but I could be off.

    The position that the elbow (angle of the arm overall) moves through when doing the push-down block is like the position of the strike to the groin in the striking set.

    Also: It is the same position that I keep the 'off' hand in Finger Set in. I don't make use of a 'trigger position' with the non-clawing/poking/slicing....etc. hand...and it's this same position.
    It's the "Master Key Arm Position".

    ...am I on the right track sir?
    Thanks

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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    I THINK I know what you're indicating, but I could be off.

    The position that the elbow (angle of the arm overall) moves through when doing the push-down block is like the position of the strike to the groin in the striking set.

    Also: It is the same position that I keep the 'off' hand in Finger Set in. I don't make use of a 'trigger position' with the non-clawing/poking/slicing....etc. hand...and it's this same position.
    It's the "Master Key Arm Position".

    ...am I on the right track sir?
    Thanks

    Your Brother
    John

    Yes and no. Im looking at the figure 8 pattern the elbow makes in blocking set during the transistion through the back elbow to the push down block. The rest of what you said is good stuff. Not there yet. And Im refering to striking set 2, striking set one is to easy.

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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Performing this set as figure eight, does it act as a soft parry, or force against force block?

    Kenpo Gary
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    I consider this method of execution to really stick to what Mr. Parker said about the goal of Kenpo:
    To round of corners and elongate circles. BUT: It's not the best thing to show MOST beginners this way. I think it's best to start them off WITH the corners, and then lead them to round them off & elongate later.


    Something I really like is to apply this type of motion to "Thundering Hammers" !!!! Do you do that sir? (or anyone else?) If so.....how?


    Your Brother
    John
    Good stuff, Brother! We use that kind of motion for the first shot on T.H. Honestly, we use it everywhere we can! There just aren't words to describe how your internal organs feel after a properly delivered strike like that, lol!
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo Gary View Post
    Performing this set as figure eight, does it act as a soft parry, or force against force block?

    Kenpo Gary

    It can be both, however I dont consider parries to be blocks.
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo Gary View Post
    Performing this set as figure eight, does it act as a soft parry, or force against force block?

    Kenpo Gary
    Try this:

    The attacker throws a right punch followed by a left punch.

    We all know that we can go straight from delayed sword from a punch, to sword of destruction, just like in star block.

    Do the same attack:

    Do the inward block and let it continue its path of action like reversing mace, and then orbit to the extended outward block. Allow it to continue its path and complete the figure 8 pattern, and shoot a right punch, or upward block, or elbow.
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    It can be both, however I dont consider parries to be blocks.
    You are correct sir, by definition they cannot be, and are designed to be supported and supplemented by a blocking action. Singular parries do not exist when working from an anatomical perspective.
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    The "Elongate circles, and round off corners" quote came about when Parker created the "motion" concept of teaching. It is the ultimate aim of Motion based kenpo, and not Kenpo in general. In fact, it can actually be counterproductive, much like the "Big circles, big trouble" quote. Things must always be placed in context.
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    You are correct sir, by definition they cannot be, and are designed to be supported and supplemented by a blocking action. Singular parries do not exist when working from an anatomical perspective.
    Doc,

    Sir I have been missing your post. Please help us out here.

    What are your views about the circular patterns that could be applied to the set?

    How or would this defy logic?

    What if any anytomical mis- alignments could or would this create.

    My Respects Sir
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Doc,

    Sir I have been missing your post. Please help us out here.

    What are your views about the circular patterns that could be applied to the set?

    How or would this defy logic?

    What if any anytomical mis- alignments could or would this create.

    My Respects Sir
    What's missing in the discussion is the lack of specifics. Not unexpected, everything is centered around this or that "motion." The body has to have specific indices to perform optimally, and prevent misalignment. This requires specific articulation of the shoulder, elbow, wrist, and even fingers relative to the chosen stance of application. It is essentially a "whole body" function, and while the "figure eights" etc do exist, trust me, just making the motion will not satisfy anatomical substructure mandates of support, and are easily demonstrable on the floor.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    What's missing in the discussion is the lack of specifics. Not unexpected, everything is centered around this or that "motion." The body has to have specific indices to perform optimally, and prevent misalignment. This requires specific articulation of the shoulder, elbow, wrist, and even fingers relative to the chosen stance of application. It is essentially a "whole body" function, and while the "figure eights" etc do exist, trust me, just making the motion will not satisfy anatomical substructure mandates of support, and are easily demonstrable on the floor.
    Doc,

    Sir would you be willing to walk us through this step by step? The specifics are missing because we dont know really where to begin. Would it be better to isolate the individule blocks, from the netural bow, or the training horse stance. I know they both have different applications.

    As always sir my deepest respect.
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Sounds like a great start for a seminar Brad...
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Doc,

    Sir would you be willing to walk us through this step by step? The specifics are missing because we dont know really where to begin. Would it be better to isolate the individule blocks, from the netural bow, or the training horse stance. I know they both have different applications.

    As always sir my deepest respect.
    We rarely use the training horse because its' "training" function is irrelevant and primarily only serves a historical purpose.

    However attempting to walk you through this would require significant written explanations rife with confusion for those not physically present in previous training.

    Be advised that this site has the largest and broadest on-line section of SL-4/Kenpo Terminology and it continues to build as time permits.
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    Default Re: Blocking Set 1 ( Star Block)

    Dr. Chapel,

    At one time didn't your website have a written explanation of the yellow belt techs and blocking set 1 (or short 1)? Do you still have that information available online?

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