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Thread: Long Distance Students

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    Default Long Distance Students

    From time to time we here about how far students are willing to travel for instruction. There is another side of the coin as well. How do we as instructors provide training for those who we see only on a part time basis? The question isn’t about allowing them to video the lessons, or how we communicate with them via email. The core of the question has to do with what do we provide the student which will translate throughout their material, and carry them through the long periods of non- face to face instruction?
    Brad Marshall SP
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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    A VERY good subject Brad!

    There's been a significant amount of time that I've not even lived in the same State as my instructors. They did their utmost for me though, and it helped a lot.

    As I've never taught anyone that didn't live at least w/in a 2 hour drive of my home.....I'm not really qualified to give much of an answer on this myself though. But I'll be very interested in what others who have done it have to add.

    thanks

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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Are you talking about training materials or actual curriculum for them to study?
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Are you talking about training materials or actual curriculum for them to study?
    Curriculum
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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Are you talking about training materials or actual curriculum for them to study?
    I am looking for information for example ( Look at the universal block on a horizontal plane, and find where it may occur within the tech's).
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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I am looking for information for example ( Look at the universal block on a horizontal plane, and find where it may occur within the tech's).
    In other words, how does one 'guide' long distance students to have their own discoveries or experiences to help them grow?

    One of my instructors excels at that! He can mention something on the phone and it'll lead me to a line of thinking which makes me really think and have to 'work it out'.

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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    In other words, how does one 'guide' long distance students to have their own discoveries or experiences to help them grow?

    One of my instructors excels at that! He can mention something on the phone and it'll lead me to a line of thinking which makes me really think and have to 'work it out'.

    Your Brother
    John

    Much like many of the conversations on here, where someone says to try something and people play with it and discover it and several other things along the way
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    In other words, how does one 'guide' long distance students to have their own discoveries or experiences to help them grow?

    One of my instructors excels at that! He can mention something on the phone and it'll lead me to a line of thinking which makes me really think and have to 'work it out'.

    Your Brother
    John
    This is correct John,

    So what would you share with someone to help accelerate a student you see on a quarterly basis. Or should we restrain from this?
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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    In other words, how does one 'guide' long distance students to have their own discoveries or experiences to help them grow?

    One of my instructors excels at that! He can mention something on the phone and it'll lead me to a line of thinking which makes me really think and have to 'work it out'.

    Your Brother
    John
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Much like many of the conversations on here, where someone says to try something and people play with it and discover it and several other things along the way
    It's only successful if the student is "self correcting" and "self disciplined." But then, even in a brick-&-mortar environment those traits are necessary for improvement and growth of the student.

    The channel is not as important as the message. Some channels work better at conveying a message, but if the message is recieved then communication has taken place.

    Any message- written, phoned, video conferenced, or even a face-to-face with a student will spark motivation in the student to discover if communicated effectively.

    I find a good way of communicating is to try to find something the student is interested in or has a experience with in order to draw analogies and/or help the proverbial light bulb go off....or at least start flickering a bit.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    It's only successful if the student is "self correcting" and "self disciplined." But then, even in a brick-&-mortar environment those traits are necessary for improvement and growth of the student.
    That's a really excellent point man. I hadn't thought of that!!!
    I think it's important to note that the MOST successful students, whether those you see daily or those whom you can't see often enough... WORK HARD on their own and really think hard about what you've told them.

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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    That's a really excellent point man. I hadn't thought of that!!!
    I think it's important to note that the MOST successful students, whether those you see daily or those whom you can't see often enough... WORK HARD on their own and really think hard about what you've told them.

    Your Brother
    John
    Nail on the head, bro.

    I've seen IKCA students that really "wanted" to learn kenpo and distance learning is their only option. They train hard and often. They'll use anyone, their grandma if that's all they've got, as an uki to practice with.....they take the feedback they get at seminars, e-mail, on phone, etc and ACT on it...and they are quite proficient.

    On the other hand, we've had a student locally that's been stuck at orange for several years. He comes maybe twice a week and never practices at home. We constantly have to repeat lessons to him. He does NOT act. He makes no effort to retain the information. He may "get it" once in a while in class, but lacks the discipline and ability to self-correct necessary to retain it.

    There are other variables for sure, but the bottom line is regardless of the method...you'll get out of it what you put into it.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    So what would you share with someone to help accelerate a student you see on a quarterly basis. Or should we restrain from this?
    Thank you for the question sir.

    As I myself come from a background (as you know, probably more than MOST here do) where I WAS a 'distance' student, I sure am glad that my instructors never restrained from distance instruction. If anything, they really gave of themselves over and above anything asked of them. I also know that many of Mr. Parker's own students could only have very little face to face time with him, and otherwise worked HARD on their own between visits and made a lot of use of the telephone and video.

    If I'm ever honored with having a student that lives too far to see more than just a few times a year, I'd want to make sure that what they got from me was worth every single ounce of their dedication. It's no easy thing to be a 'distance student'. I'd work to make certain that they had access to videos and manuals/books that would help them and inspire them along their way. Getting them connected with KenpoTalk would be invaluable!!!! ((One of the drawbacks of distance learning is the lack of community and camaraderie that you can have in a good dojo. While I don't think that any forum could fully 'make up' for it, it's a Great supplement and a wonderful resource to draw from))

    I would encourage them to seek out at least one, or better...Two, training partners who're at least near to their own level of physical ability. I'd encourage them to video some, or all, of their training sessions and get the tapes to me as often as possible. I'd help them create a training plan in which they address ALL of the curriculum that they know on a regular basis in an even and comprehensive way....and also include workouts where they do nothing other than work on those areas that are lagging and/or those things that they've just recently learned, in order to ingrain them better. I'd REQUIRE that they keep a training journal, preferably something like "word" format so that they could also share it with me when appropriate. I'd let them video that instruction that they get from me. I'd encourage and facilitate their exposure to other good instructors in the system and work to get them to as many quality seminars as possible. I would keep in contact with them on a regular basis and even set up a date in which they needed to contact me by phone w/in a 48 hour time-frame for a discussion of their progress and any questions that they might have. (48 hours so that they could better fit it into their lives) I'd give them regular assignments and ask them questions that they would need to "WORK OUT" in order to answer. I would encourage them to counter balance the fact that they don't get AS much face to face time as 'regular' students by really digging into the analysis of techniques, not to 'change' anything necessarily, though eventually I would need to lead them to find their own formulations of things (Down the Road), but to discover what makes the system and all of it elements function, and function well.

    These are just some things off the top of my head. And really, I simply did it by remembering (fondly) what has been done for me!!

    Your Brother
    John
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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    Thank you for the question sir.

    As I myself come from a background (as you know, probably more than MOST here do) where I WAS a 'distance' student, I sure am glad that my instructors never restrained from distance instruction. If anything, they really gave of themselves over and above anything asked of them. I also know that many of Mr. Parker's own students could only have very little face to face time with him, and otherwise worked HARD on their own between visits and made a lot of use of the telephone and video.

    If I'm ever honored with having a student that lives too far to see more than just a few times a year, I'd want to make sure that what they got from me was worth every single ounce of their dedication. It's no easy thing to be a 'distance student'. I'd work to make certain that they had access to videos and manuals/books that would help them and inspire them along their way. Getting them connected with KenpoTalk would be invaluable!!!! ((One of the drawbacks of distance learning is the lack of community and camaraderie that you can have in a good dojo. While I don't think that any forum could fully 'make up' for it, it's a Great supplement and a wonderful resource to draw from))

    I would encourage them to seek out at least one, or better...Two, training partners who're at least near to their own level of physical ability. I'd encourage them to video some, or all, of their training sessions and get the tapes to me as often as possible. I'd help them create a training plan in which they address ALL of the curriculum that they know on a regular basis in an even and comprehensive way....and also include workouts where they do nothing other than work on those areas that are lagging and/or those things that they've just recently learned, in order to ingrain them better. I'd REQUIRE that they keep a training journal, preferably something like "word" format so that they could also share it with me when appropriate. I'd let them video that instruction that they get from me. I'd encourage and facilitate their exposure to other good instructors in the system and work to get them to as many quality seminars as possible. I would keep in contact with them on a regular basis and even set up a date in which they needed to contact me by phone w/in a 48 hour time-frame for a discussion of their progress and any questions that they might have. (48 hours so that they could better fit it into their lives) I'd give them regular assignments and ask them questions that they would need to "WORK OUT" in order to answer. I would encourage them to counter balance the fact that they don't get AS much face to face time as 'regular' students by really digging into the analysis of techniques, not to 'change' anything necessarily, though eventually I would need to lead them to find their own formulations of things (Down the Road), but to discover what makes the system and all of it elements function, and function well.

    These are just some things off the top of my head. And really, I simply did it by remembering (fondly) what has been done for me!!

    Your Brother
    John

    Good Stuff Bro,

    So do you think it would be a good practice to have them write papers on specific topics from time to time?
    Brad Marshall SP
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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    From time to time we here about how far students are willing to travel for instruction. There is another side of the coin as well. How do we as instructors provide training for those who we see only on a part time basis? The question isn’t about allowing them to video the lessons, or how we communicate with them via email. The core of the question has to do with what do we provide the student which will translate throughout their material, and carry them through the long periods of non- face to face instruction?
    I have a black belt student who drives 2.5 hours every 6 weeks to train with me. I teach him a 2-hour private lessson, so we get through a lot of material, both new and review.

    We have no problem with lack of face-to-face time. He is awesome.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Good Stuff Bro,

    So do you think it would be a good practice to have them write papers on specific topics from time to time?
    Thanks!

    Yes, I think that would be a good idea. I don't know what I'd require of them as far as length (# of pages) or deadline, and I think I'd ask them to "strive for your best quality" but let them know that I wasn't TOO concerned about grammar, spelling and punctuation. If I taught English, maybe it'd be different. But I aint no English teacher.

    But yeah, I'd probably sometimes give them a choice of three topics... and at other times give them ONE specific topic. Once they turned it in, I'd try not to "grade" it, but if there are things I see as errors or whatnot, I'd look at them as the areas to challenge their rationale for and encourage them to look deeper........or it could be the area that we need to cover the next time I could get together with them. OR maybe they just had bad information in their research...in which case I'd just give them a "Well....actually.......it's more like this."

    Hope that was clear enough.

    Your Brother
    John
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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    I have a black belt student who drives 2.5 hours every 6 weeks to train with me. I teach him a 2-hour private lessson, so we get through a lot of material, both new and review.

    We have no problem with lack of face-to-face time. He is awesome.
    Those are the guys close to my heart!! I had a student who drove 2 hours one way every single week to come to class. He was never late, usually an hour early, and stayed late every time he could. He did this for three years! He made tremendous growth as well, and is a good friend.

    I had to drive a little over an hour one way every week for my lessons the first several years of my training. It was MORE than worth it.


    Your Brother
    John
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    Default Re: Long Distance Students

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    I have a black belt student who drives 2.5 hours every 6 weeks to train with me. I teach him a 2-hour private lessson, so we get through a lot of material, both new and review.

    We have no problem with lack of face-to-face time. He is awesome.
    Brother Jamie,

    I have several who do the same. I deeply respect those who make that sacerfice for their training. The issue is with those students who live 12 hrs away, or for those on the east coast,and the west coast.

    I have some concerns with your fourm that you need to look at.

    Your Brother
    Brad Marshall SP
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