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Thread: Split from Form 6 thread

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    Default Split from Form 6 thread

    There are many variations of this form taught over the years, and the original version I recall did indeed have the symmetry, (although flawed technique) on the opening sequence. Along the way, this form became THE form for competition and its popularity and desire to make it "flow," fostered some "minor changes" for the purposes of presentation. I believe that was one of them.

    Although some still hold this form in high regard as a teaching vehicle, truth is it really is just a competition form, with very little functional aspects, much like the three forms that proceed it. It's primary purpose was, and always has been to promote "movement" and it's unstated theme of "flowing weapons disarms" is dangerous and inpractical in application. A quick look at the first technique, (thrusting knife defense) will validate that perspective.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    A quick look at the first technique, (thrusting knife defense) will validate that perspective.
    I am the first to admit that I'm not very good with knives (yet) and I've always had issue with this technique. I think perhaps the first part of the technique might work (again, I don't know enough about knives to know how quickly I'll get killed), but it seem the rest of it, after the kick, would be really hard to pull off.

    Are there any experienced knife people who would like to comment?

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    I am the first to admit that I'm not very good with knives (yet) and I've always had issue with this technique. I think perhaps the first part of the technique might work (again, I don't know enough about knives to know how quickly I'll get killed), but it seem the rest of it, after the kick, would be really hard to pull off.

    Are there any experienced knife people who would like to comment?

    --Amy
    I know this is off-topic but I've just realized something after conversations with a student. Apparently you were at my lecture in Santa Rosa. I must sincerely apologize because I didn't know who you were. Had I known, I would have suggested some personal time and conversation with you about the art and my perspectives. I was extremely tired and was not as sharp as I should have been, and also in my defense, the picture of your on the forum does not do you justice at all. You are truly much more attractive than that in person. Maybe next time.

    Sincerely and Respectfully,

    Dr. Ron Chapél
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Apparently you were at my lecture in Santa Rosa. I must sincerely apologize because I didn't know who you were. Had I known, I would have suggested some personal time and conversation with you about the art and my perspectives. In my defense, the picture of yourself on the forum does not do you justice at all. You are truly much more attractive than that in person. Maybe next time.

    Sincerely and Respectfully,

    Dr. Ron Chapél
    Well, thank you. Since you'd made internet references while we were chatting, I figured you knew who I was. We were never formally introduced either. Your time was pretty short due to your travel situation, so we wouldn't have had much of a chance either way. I'm sure there will be other chances.

    I'm looking forward to it. Your seminar was a lot of fun and my shoulder feels much better today, thank you.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    I am the first to admit that I'm not very good with knives (yet) and I've always had issue with this technique. I think perhaps the first part of the technique might work (again, I don't know enough about knives to know how quickly I'll get killed), but it seem the rest of it, after the kick, would be really hard to pull off.

    Are there any experienced knife people who would like to comment?

    --Amy
    Being "good at knives" is a unique perspective, and for most in the real world is without merit. Head-to-head knife fights don't exist, and military applications are stealthy and meant to kill quickly, usually from the rear before they know you're there.

    So the self-defense aspect of knives is suspect under most circumstances. And no one champions a right for a woman to defend herself more than I do. I just believe that women need to concentrate on the practical things that are more likely to save them over the popular flash. Having good technique, knowledge, and mind-set are more important than doing form 4.

    The first technique here in this form has your right arm reach under the blade to get to the outside, so you can reach back and grab the wrist. You just sliced your artery in your arm and are now bleeding to death. It sometimes doesn't have anything to do with expertise. Sometimes it's just plain old common sense like you seem to have by questioning this in the first place.

    There are no Kenpo knife experts. Just people who play with knives. The real experts don't talk about it, or what they do, and knives are not the only thing they carry.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Being "good at knives" is a unique perspective, and for most in the real world is without merit. There are no Kenpo knife experts. Just people who play with knives. The real experts don't talk about it, or what they do, and knives are not the only thing they carry.
    Yes, who brings a knife to gun fight? lol.

    My hope is just not to come into contact with someone trying to hurt me with one. Agreed that women, and men of smaller stature, need to be technically more proficient, since we can't muscle our way through most techniques.

    I do think doing forms well can help with overall flow, most especially if you do them with the correct intent and vision when doing them. I also think they aren't the same as doing the actual techniques.

    I don't feel comfortable with any of the knife techniques, except perhaps Raining Lance. The rest of them make me distinctly nervous.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    New kenpo technique, called "stirring the pot"...

    Amy: I think Doc just called you unphotogenic? (Sorry, Amy; this was the only pic I could find of us at Doc's seminar)

    Doc: I couldn't agree more with your statement about those that do, and those that yap. Worked with a guy whom...my first hint were the scars on his forearms...and he carried lots of toys; some sharp, some loud. Methinks Form 6 would not have helped.

    It was great to see you again, and I hope next time is longer, and more refreshing for you

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    Yes, who brings a knife to gun fight? lol.

    My hope is just not to come into contact with someone trying to hurt me with one. Agreed that women, and men of smaller stature, need to be technically more proficient, since we can't muscle our way through most techniques.

    I do think doing forms well can help with overall flow, most especially if you do them with the correct intent and vision when doing them. I also think they aren't the same as doing the actual techniques.

    I don't feel comfortable with any of the knife techniques, except perhaps Raining Lance. The rest of them make me distinctly nervous.

    --Amy
    Than you are as smart as you are attractive. Doing proper forms and sets will indeed help you. The problem is the forms and sets needed are not generally available. In the unlikely event you should be attacked with a knife, it will be used to intimidate to force you to submit to someone's will, or if immediate harm is the goal, it will be a downward stabbing movement much like in the movies. The thrid alternative is, you're already dead because you were approached from behind, your head was immobilized with one hand, while the other shoved the blade into the base of your brain. FBI Statisitcs have been consistent in these facts for decades. The proper use of knives takes skill and practice. Most find it much easier to just pick up a gun. Noisier but I don't have to get up close and personal, so your obs are right on. Here in California, carrying certain blades are a felony. Carrying a handgun is still a misdemeanor. Get a piece, and we'll teach you how to shoot.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post

    Amy: I think Doc just called you unphotogenic? (Sorry, Amy; this was the only pic I could find of us at Doc's seminar)
    LOL. And here I thought that picture somewhat flattering. But maybe Doc has a preference for sweaty, tired, bruised women. lol.

    And that's a great picture. It really catches the essence of the technique we worked on in that seminar. I had a momentary flashback.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Than you are as smart as you are attractive. Doing proper forms and sets will indeed help you. The problem is the forms and sets needed are not generally available. In the unlikely event you should be attacked with a knife, it will be used to intimidate to force you to submit to someone's will, or if immediate harm is the goal, it will be a downward stabbing movement much like in the movies. The thrid alternative is, you're already dead because you were approached from behind, your head was immobilized with one hand, while the other shoved the blade into the base of your brain. FBI Statisitcs have been consistent in these facts for decades. The proper use of knives takes skill and practice. Most find it much easier to just pick up a gun. Noisier but I don't have to get up close and personal, so your obs are right on. Here in California, carrying certain blades are a felony. Carrying a handgun is still a misdemeanor. Get a piece, and we'll teach you how to shoot.
    I'd be down for joinin ya if I could. I remember you talking about indexing for shooting on enight. I do alriught with the .45, but there is always room for improvement, and anatomically based would no doubt be best.

    Or...maybe next time I'm south, we can hit the range?

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    The thrid alternative is, you're already dead because you were approached from behind, your head was immobilized with one hand, while the other shoved the blade into the base of your brain. Carrying a handgun is still a misdemeanor. Get a piece, and we'll teach you how to shoot.
    Okay, first of all.....ewwwww.

    I haven't done any shooting in years. It's fun though. Once I figured out that I'm left handed, but right-eyed, then I found that I'm not a bad shot.

    Just hand guns though. I haven't messed with a rifle. I think the ones I shot were a .44 and maybe a .22.

    I'd rather have a gun to worry about than a knife any day.

    I'm going to practice some knife stuff anyway so I can look cool swinging it around. If it's not going to be especially effective for me, at least I want to look cool when I die.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    LOL. And here I thought that picture somewhat flattering. But maybe Doc has a preference for sweaty, tired, bruised women. lol.

    And that's a great picture. It really catches the essence of the technique we worked on in that seminar. I had a momentary flashback.

    --Amy
    Most never see themselves as others do. I may not know much, but I do know a pretty girl when I see one. Dump the picturee, it isn't even close. I ain't THAT old. Sweat not withstanding.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    LOL. And here I thought that picture somewhat flattering. But maybe Doc has a preference for sweaty, tired, bruised women. lol.

    And that's a great picture. It really catches the essence of the technique we worked on in that seminar. I had a momentary flashback.

    --Amy
    Wait what picture from the seminar? I don't seen anything.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Wait what picture from the seminar? I don't seen anything.
    It's the little emoticon flipping the finger. lol
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Most never see themselves as others do. I may not know much, but I do know a pretty girl when I see one. Dump the picture, it isn't even close. I ain't THAT old. Sweat not withstanding.
    Thanks.

    More importantly though, I had a good horse stance. (you said so yourself)
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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    It's the little emoticon flipping the finger. lol
    Dr. Dave is sick you know, but then most of my students are.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Dr. Dave is sick you know, but then most of my students are.
    He's totally warped; that's one of the things I like about him.

    You're a little twisted yourself. lol.

    But I think people who wake up in the morning, after spending a day beating on others and getting beat on themselves, being bruised and battered and yet thinking, "THAT WAS A GREAT DAY!" are at least a little off.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    Thanks.

    More importantly though, I had a good horse stance. (you said so yourself)
    You have no idea how rare that is. In fact most at the seminar had a decent horse. My only suggestion is to shorten the width. Some were really deep. The original purpose of the horse stance was for strength training the legs while performing other exercises, so many teachers still promote this in training self defense, however, such depth is impractical in todays environment. You can stand taller, and be stronger with a few minor adjustments, while achieving superior practical mobility. Remember what I said about how the PNF sensor targets the part of the foot it can see, and therefore uses the inside of the foot for a reference, instead of the proper outside because the foot is curved.

    "Twisted I be. It is the reason I am undefeated where it counts."
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    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Form 6 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Head-to-head knife fights don't exist, and military applications are stealthy and meant to kill quickly, usually from the rear before they know you're there.

    This is true!!!!!

    There are no Kenpo knife experts. Just people who play with knives. The real experts don't talk about it, or what they do, and knives are not the only thing they carry.
    No comment !!!
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