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Thread: On pulling your punch

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    kit
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    Default On pulling your punch

    Watch the perfect weapon starring Jeff Speakman, he doesn't pull his punches.
    Ed Parker used to tell me that I should never pull my punch but should have the ability to lightly tap, connect, or go through an opponet.
    To this day I teach my students (on the bag) to do just that; light tap, medium contact, drill to kill,1,2,3. After they have reached a high skill level they get to practice on fellow students. By the by, in early tournaments, back in the day before safety kick you practiced this kind of control on your opponent. If you wanted to make a point with the other guy you would go from light tap to medium contact and figure that with his or her forward motion they would feel the pain which would create a fear base and allow you an opening for that winning technique.

    Amatsu Tatara

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Quote Originally Posted by kit View Post
    Watch the perfect weapon starring Jeff Speakman, he doesn't pull his punches.
    Ed Parker used to tell me that I should never pull my punch but should have the ability to lightly tap, connect, or go through an opponent.
    To this day I teach my students (on the bag) to do just that; light tap, medium contact, drill to kill,1,2,3. After they have reached a high skill level they get to practice on fellow students. By the by, in early tournaments, back in the day before safety kick you practiced this kind of control on your opponent. If you wanted to make a point with the other guy you would go from light tap to medium contact and figure that with his or her forward motion they would feel the pain which would create a fear base and allow you an opening for that winning technique.

    Amatsu Tatara
    You are correct if you practice to pull a punch then you are training to never actually hit or make contact.

    Another element to this would be the degree of energy you disperse into the target such as your lite tap, medium contact or drill to kill (I love that term I may need to borrow it from you) set or based on degree of intensity. And degree of penetration of the target.

    But with that said it is absolutely a big problem to train to pull a strike. I also recall those lessons with SGM Parker and my other Instructors.

    All on the same page for sure on this one. Great point very important yet much overlooked.

    Your brother in the Journey,
    Greg Hilderbrand
    A.K.K.I.

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Just so we are clear here.

    When I first trained in karate, we used a thing called “sun doe may”.
    (It’s pronounced in this manner but spelled differently).
    Basically it meant punching and kicking to miss by about an inch.
    Even later, the idea was to just touch my partner with an extended arm.
    This is one way I came to regard as pulling my punch

    The end result; I had to relearn to punch effectively.

    Now I understand that controlling how hard I hit is based on punching “through” my partner.
    If I don't want to touch them; I consciously stop short of contact with a bent arm.
    On the other hand, if I am endangered; I’ll simply finish the punch “through” them.
    Generally, “through” is somewhere between four and six inches past the point of contact.
    This is the way I practice and it’s the way I teach.

    Between those two extremes I gauge my attacks something like this;
    No contact, 25%, 50%, 75% or 100%.
    I once read of a study about athletes who maintained a 75% effort.
    They were said to exhibit as hard an effort as those who went for 100%.
    It had something primarily to do with timing, if memory serves.

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Quote Originally Posted by G. Hilderbrand View Post
    You are correct if you practice to pull a punch then you are training to never actually hit or make contact.

    Another element to this would be the degree of energy you disperse into the target such as your lite tap, medium contact or drill to kill (I love that term I may need to borrow it from you) set or based on degree of intensity. And degree of penetration of the target.

    But with that said it is absolutely a big problem to train to pull a strike.
    Those are Great points.

    Like Mr. Taylor used to say to me: "If you are training to NOT hit, that's exactly what you'll do in a fight, because you trained to miss."

    Your Brother
    John
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    ((if you use "FaceBook", look me up there by name))
    "Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted"
    ~ David Bly

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Ya gotta make contact.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    yesterday my instructor was teaching me some simple kicks using a bag, basicly get in your uneven stance i believe it's called, then raise your knee of your back leg as it is up, the leg that is planted on the floor turns to finsih the kick, my question is does the planted leg have to turn a full half circle? or turning a quarter is fine. thanks again
    It does not matter where the Martial art comes from. if it can help you defend yourself it is worth learning( Bruce Lee ) May the Force Be With You

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Stated differently, control is a matter of target choice. Always hit your target! Where that target is in relation to the surface/interior of your opponent is always up to you. By default this will determine contact (or no contact) and/or penetration. Always train to hit the target you are aiming for! To do anything less is cheating yourself and opening the door for disaster in an actual confrontation.

    Respects,
    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
    www.trianglekenpo.com

    "I know Kenpo!" "Cool... do you know how to use it?"

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Quote Originally Posted by kit View Post
    Watch the perfect weapon starring Jeff Speakman, he doesn't pull his punches.
    Really?

    That's not what I saw.

    I saw a whole bunch of splicing going on and on.

    In fact in one fight scene he is breaking the left knee, and in the next frame he is dropping an elbow on the right knee.

    It's a movie!

    Superman really CANNOT FLY even though he did in the movie!

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Quote Originally Posted by bdparsons View Post
    Stated differently, control is a matter of target choice. Always hit your target! Where that target is in relation to the surface/interior of your opponent is always up to you. By default this will determine contact (or no contact) and/or penetration. Always train to hit the target you are aiming for! To do anything less is cheating yourself and opening the door for disaster in an actual confrontation.
    Thank you Mr. Parsons.

    Well said.

    Now we just need to inform them of the "rules of penetration", the "rules of Impact weapon points", "the 9 different types of Nerve Cavity strikes", and blab, blab, blab.

    Nice post.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Quote Originally Posted by Latinvipers View Post
    yesterday my instructor was teaching me some simple kicks using a bag, basicly get in your uneven stance i believe it's called, then raise your knee of your back leg as it is up, the leg that is planted on the floor turns to finsih the kick, my question is does the planted leg have to turn a full half circle? or turning a quarter is fine. thanks again
    You are talking about a "single point balance" master Key.

    So, since they differ according to the kick, which kick?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca View Post
    Ya gotta make contact.
    That's what she told me to on my first date.

    The nemis

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    That's what she told me to on my first date.

    The nemis
    Hey, I know her grandaughter. LOL
    Sean

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    Hey, I know her grandaughter. LOL
    Sean

    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    we always make contact in class. its how well you control it that matters, with the exception of elbows to the face (which the shoulder can usually be a acceptable substitute).. always have room to actually hit. you have to learn to take a hit/body. then you learn how to control your hits. students dont -hit- white belts in our school.. however control and concentration is -heavily- stressed after that.. we wanna hear ppl getting hit.. we wanna hear cup checks... maybe we're a bunch of masochists.. but it makes me proud when a yellow belt does and extended outward block and my arm goes numb for a moment or two.. or continually hits the same/correct spot doing a technique over and over. or i double a big guy over and hes say "nice job!"..

    over the course of a couple years, there were 3 incidents of ppl not paying attention (either the defender or uke) and all got 6 stitches in the same spot across their eye doing deflecting hammer/pendulum. the two worst "injuries" iv seen in 2 years were a chipped tooth (mine, which was my fault and i learned from).. and i think a welt or two on a shin or forearm.

    .. iv seen a video of, and been taught that mr parker always said control the punch, dont fully extend it an inch or so away from your partner.... if you had to hit in a real fight.. that adrenaline is not going to let you stop that fraction of an inch before their throat/nose/solarplex if you have the room to extend your strike further.

    half fists to the throat become heel palms to the shoulder or chest to allow contact. ala crashing thunder/striking the serpent's head... everyone's seen Mr. Mills do timing drill strikes on ppl's chests and shoulders in videos. same concept. some contact MUST be made or you're just doing a kata, with a body happening to be there.

    also.. altering your methods so they become pushes instead of punches, palm strikes can be made to varying degrees of penetrating slaps. which still hurt like a bitch.

    my motto is, and always has been. as long as it will heal without medical attention, can still go to work the next day, and doesnt involve my nose. bring it on.. if i get hit doing parrying drills.. its my fault. i want him aiming for me.
    Brian Sheets
    VKKSI Kenpo 1st Black

    Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it." ~ Unknown
    "Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting, but never hit soft." Theodore Roosevelt



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    Default Re: On pulling your punch

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    Hey, I know her grandaughter. LOL
    Sean
    some of them are "active" much sooner now. Maybe Great grandaughter?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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