Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Really, real street fights...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    6,026
    Thanks
    1,199
    Thanked 1,520 Times in 909 Posts

    Default Really, real street fights...

    I've been researching and looking at available footage of real life altercations caught on video. Some in bars, some in the actual "street."

    One common thread I observed in all of them was a barrage of left-right or right-left punches being thrown as the attacker attempted to quickly close the gap.

    I also observed the defender back peddling, usually answering with a barrage of their own. Not usually very effective as a defense, except in some rare cases where they landed a lucky shot to the chin or temple.

    On occasion, if and once the gap was closed, I observed headlocks and an occasional...yes occasional.. tackle. I was actually surprised by that. I expected more take down attempts but most of what I saw was an onslaught of haymaker punches. There were kicks, but usually they occured after the opponent was downed, which was quite brutal and ugly.

    The "fights" were all quite explosive and the punches came one after the other. We have a lot of "one-punch-techniques" in Kenpo but how do you train, or train your students to deal with such brutal onslaughts and barrages of punches?

    I find trapping and parrying drills coupled with footwork excercises quite useful what do you suggest or train?
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Celtic_Crippler For This Useful Post:

    Mikael151 (06-19-2007),thedan (06-18-2007)

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,343
    Thanks
    2,296
    Thanked 4,374 Times in 1,427 Posts

    Default Re: Really, real street fights...

    I did a stint at Bob Whites in Costa Mesa, which helped me immensely. Prior to going there, I'd been in kenpo for years, kick-boxing (which taught me how to TAKE a hit), and other stuff. But I got something absolutely invaluable from the sparring training at Mr. Whites. "Touch and Go".

    Even in kickboxing, there was this attitude of exchange. Stand and trade. Mr. Whites championship black belt crew got that way from being first, often. From training to see the guy twitch to start off the line, and cramming a lot of stuff at him all at once, very fast and very hard. They were/are all good. Someone who stood out to me because of the focus pad charging drill he would do was Mr. Steve Rice. He would sprint like a runner out of the blocks from 15-20 feet away, launching combinations at held pads. Impossible distances. Made training in a class comical: You'd be working a tech with a partner, and Mr. Rice would blow by like a breeze, running out his front-crossover lead hand punch.

    Anyway, I invited myself to join him a couple times, and it changed my focus pad regimen and fight response completely. Pad drills used to be the typical jab/cross/hook drills you see in boxing; now, they are targets on impossibly long lunges that force me to stretch and drive into my opponents range. The lunge provides an interesting backup mass to the strike. Oddly, I haven't figured out how to use them well in -- of all things -- sparring. I hit too hard with them for things to be friendly, so while they make fun strategy, I have to keep it in my back pocket until I'm in the dookey.

    Second thing they did was teach me to crash forward into the guy, rather than waiting and responding...a counter-offensive, rather than a defense. Why wait for the guy? Just leap at him like a maniac with a spear, but instead of a spear, you've got this long reaching lead hand or foot, followed by an impaling rear hand (I got impaled by his guys often enough...I should know). followed by a barrage of your own. Opening with a pull-drag low-line kick to groin, knees or gut does a nice job of distracting his hands downward in a protective action, just before closing the distance unexpectedly quick to the high line.

    The next 2 great thing I use I got from the Gracies, and from Doc. From the Gracies, different clinches, and how to navigate them. Takedowns, throws, chokes and controls from Judo come in nicely from that distance, even if you don't want to go to the floor. From Doc, the "Braced Index" position: A "fighting stance" that bounces attackers back and away from you with a slight impulse through the lead and rear hands, very small push-drag. I use that if they got too close for me to launch at for some reason. After I send 'em back, it's formulaic, and not what street brawlers expect. Brace to repel; Rices lunge to close with hits; Gracie clinching 101 to check and subdue them while I jockey for position, then Judo 101 to throw them onto the asphalt hard. Where I hit and kick them while they're down.

    Actually used the Rice lunges often bouncing; before learning the index from Doc, I would just cover up with Muay Thai guard, push them away, then launch. In many more brawls than I had any business being in, I mostly used the sprinting combos, and judo. With some Thai elbows and knees from the clinch. Worked just fine.

    And here's where I make some enemies...I NEVER used the multiple punch defense techniques from AK (as from Brown Belt), because they were pretty much unusable in the midst of controlling chaos. Freestyle combos...Thai...Gracie clinch...judo...street-fu.

    Making me miss being young and stupid with this one, Crip. I had some good adrenaline fixes back yore.

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dr. Dave in da house For This Useful Post:

    Dianhsuhe (06-18-2007),nelson (06-19-2007),thedan (06-18-2007)

  5. #3
    RDCParker is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Green Belt
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Eastvale (Corona), CA; training out of Los Angeles
    Posts
    699
    Thanks
    187
    Thanked 260 Times in 191 Posts

    Default Re: Really, real street fights...

    I have noticed that also with a lot of street fights (and I've seen my fair share of them living in South LA and Inglewood for years).

    I agree that footwork is a vital thing to train on, as well as parrying. Those two combined effectively will not only redirect the attacker's energy where you want it to go, but also put you in a better position to counter.

    Also (and I learned this from the recent Mike Pick seminar), practicing how to "attack the attack" will really help. Think about techs like Dance of Death and Attacking Mace, where you step in and deliver a strong block that upsets the attacker's balance and cancels out that other arm from swinging right away. I'm sure there are plenty other techs that use this idea in different ways, but it's a sound kenpo principle IMO.

    Finally, speed speed SPEED!
    "Your kung fu's no good..."
    *Warrior, Scholar*

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wichita, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    2,467
    Thanks
    2,019
    Thanked 1,277 Times in 709 Posts

    Default Re: Really, real street fights...

    Train so that your "Blocks" actually "Strike"....
    so that you can take the teeth from the dog, so to speak. Make it such that when they extend a limb it doesn't come back to them unscathed. This makes their repeated attempts at the 'barrage' less and less effective. So many people are concerned with attacks to the head and body, but the we are hard wired to protect the face & head and the body is very durable...
    the limbs, however, are NOT as durable and are usually the first things to come within striking distance.
    Reminds me of Mr. Parker's "four course meal" concept...
    don't just treat the limbs like something to get Around to get at the body and head, but something to eliminate on your way THROUGH.

    Your Brother
    John
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ((if you use "FaceBook", look me up there by name))
    "Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted"
    ~ David Bly

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: Really, real street fights...

    Kinda blows that myth of how many attacks go to the ground doesn't it. But that myth and UFC made the Gracies a household name and tons of cash.


    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    I've been researching and looking at available footage of real life altercations caught on video. Some in bars, some in the actual "street."

    One common thread I observed in all of them was a barrage of left-right or right-left punches being thrown as the attacker attempted to quickly close the gap.

    I also observed the defender back peddling, usually answering with a barrage of their own. Not usually very effective as a defense, except in some rare cases where they landed a lucky shot to the chin or temple.

    On occasion, if and once the gap was closed, I observed headlocks and an occasional...yes occasional.. tackle. I was actually surprised by that. I expected more take down attempts but most of what I saw was an onslaught of haymaker punches. There were kicks, but usually they occured after the opponent was downed, which was quite brutal and ugly.

    The "fights" were all quite explosive and the punches came one after the other. We have a lot of "one-punch-techniques" in Kenpo but how do you train, or train your students to deal with such brutal onslaughts and barrages of punches?

    I find trapping and parrying drills coupled with footwork excercises quite useful what do you suggest or train?
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  8. #6
    profesormental is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Green Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Beautiful Caribbean Island
    Posts
    500
    Thanks
    351
    Thanked 567 Times in 272 Posts

    Default Re: Really, real street fights...

    Greetings.

    They go to the ground when you have to arrest them to stop them.

    Or when you knocked down.

    They don't always end up on a wrestling match on the ground, as stated in that myth.

    There are several strategies for the street puncher's blitz. Note that the tactics are to close the gap, punch with a lot of body momentum, and most probably end up bumping bodies with the defender. Then push the defender for more punching and body bumps and grabbing.

    If it is a surprise, then probably you won't be the one closing the gap.

    You could do an evolving drill that starts by surviving the initial push/punch and regain control of you body. Then add a countering attack in the next evolution. Make sure the attack progresses in intensity and "reality".

    Then add some kind of control of finishing move to the attack.

    Also the environment should be simulated.

    This is a general framework for the drill, and can be adapted to several case studies (videos you've seen!) with appropriate counters.

    Just a bit of what we do. Many specifics left out for your entertainment.

    A final note is that the default techniques should address this, and alive drills should compliment and reinforce the knowledge passed through the default technique sequences to the students.

    Enjoy!

    Juan M. Mercado

  9. #7
    unshackled-chi is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Blue Belt
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    california
    Posts
    385
    Thanks
    286
    Thanked 183 Times in 115 Posts

    Default Re: Really, real street fights...

    i hope i dont sound like a jerk, but a good place to start is stop throwing out the single punch followed by a impressive display of techs, have people attack like a real human being will, with movement/combos and build it up to speed. I am a fan of parries over blocks and sticking hans or just taking techs and turning them into drills of exchange, a solid undertsanding of range, and awareness, just being real, just being honest with ourselves.

    True story, my mom was over about 2 weeks ago and i was showing her a tech, i swear to you lol she is 50, overcoming cancer and when i told her to punch me lol, she like greased lighting already had a left flying at my head lol, so seriously, if my mom by instinct throws more than one punch and doesnt leave it hanging out there for me to just disect lol chances are most folks in the street wont either lol, so traning that way is just ridiculous and counter-productive.
    "Mighty power like steel is our Kata and heritage which require a long time of practice and training. It is what men are seeking, just only for their self-respect and self-defense."
    MASTER MEITOKU YAGI

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-22-2007, 05:40 AM
  2. Is Black Belt Next? Asked The Street Kid Tying His New Yellow Belt...
    By MT Post Bot in forum KenpoTalk E-Zine Articles
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-14-2007, 08:14 PM
  3. Street Speed
    By Celtic_Crippler in forum Kenpo General
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-31-2007, 06:39 PM
  4. Some thoughts on the two kinds of fights, and some rambling
    By hemi in forum Hawaiian Kempo - General
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-05-2006, 05:11 PM

Search tags for this page (caching method: memcache)

steve rice kenpo

Click on a term to search our site for related topics.