Failure

[parkerkarate]

I know we all can talk about all the times that our martial art has worked. But for whom has it failed for in a tournament, fight, etc.? Please tell us a little about it.

[Rob Broad]

How can a loss in a tournament really be a failure? Every loss should teach you something.

[KenpoChanger]

The art doesn't fail you; you fail you. My teachers has always harped on the "base move" concept. When I was a brown belt I used my base move in a real street fight. Unfortunatly it "was" a knife edge kick. Lets just say I have since changed my base move.
Sean

[Blindside]

When you get your head handed to you by the TKD guy 'cause kenpo doesn't have an ideal technique for use against a 360 degree jump spinning axe kick.





Thats a joke....

[amylong]

Well, when I was a yellow belt and I was 12, I was walking with my big-mouth cousin in SF.

A big bully girl came up to us and started picking on us. My cousin, who was 9 then, said, "You better watch out because my big cousin takes karate."

I stood like I was tough (as if), but inside I was thinking, "shutupshutupshutup"

So the bully cold-cocked me in the jaw. One big punch. I stood firm like it didn't hurt until she walked out of sight.

Then I grabbed my jaw and held back the tears as we hurried home.

I didn't block. I didn't go into any kind of stance. I didn't move out of the way.

So, I guess it's fair to say that MY kenpo didn't work for me right then -- largely because I didn't use it. lol.

That's my story.

--Amy

[Brother John]

When you get your head handed to you by the TKD guy 'cause kenpo doesn't have an ideal technique for use against a 360 degree jump spinning axe kick.
Thats a joke....

...and a good joke at that!

I don't believe that "Kenpo" fails. I believe that Kenpoists can be under-prepared for a real confrontation. But "KENPO" doesn't fight, Kenpoists do....and they are either ready, or not. On the street you don't get partial credit for something done half assed.

Your Brother (pardon the crass words)
John

[parkerkarate]

...and a good joke at that!

I don't believe that "Kenpo" fails. I believe that Kenpoists can be under-prepared for a real confrontation. But "KENPO" doesn't fight, Kenpoists do....and they are either ready, or not. On the street you don't get partial credit for something done half assed.

Your Brother (pardon the crass words)
John

Ok I can deffinitely understand you and agree with you. It is like golf....it is not the golf club it is the golfer!

[Dr. Dave in da house]

I have had some really cool wins in the street, with some nights at work whipping it out there like I'm Bruce Friggin' Lee. And learned almost nothing from those nights, except that preparation prepares.My greatest lessons in what to do and what not to do have come from the events here I didn't quite get it right, and walked away bloody for it.

More of those stories than I care to admit. One of the biggest lessons for me was about congruency in purpose as a driver for combat. When I've gotten in rowls that were ego based and I knew it going in, I can't pull my stuff together...it's like all the training got left in my other pants,and I'm a stumbling buffoon, swinging and falling over himself. I usually get beaten quite easily in those evnts.

The converse...times when I felt deeply morally justified in combat, and "moved by spirit" as the Japanese say, I've done some pretty kewl stuff that I didn't train for and couldn't replicate if I tried. I feel my jaw set to the task and mybody get light, and the rest is from a dissociated state, like I'm watching it on TV instead of being in it. I went to a movie with several buddies who have been with me when I drop into the "justifiable combat" zone...Patriot, with Mel Gibson. In the scene where he shreds through a group of bad guys for the first time and comes back to awareness from that battle-craze covered in gore, two of them said at exactly the same time, "there's Dave". So that's when I'm on.

When I'm off, and lack higher purpose in my combat...it's like watching Tiger Woods tripping over his shoes getting out of the golf cart, falling on the handle of the club and knocking the wind out of himself, then hitting the ball in the exact opposite direction of the hole....and his best power drive merely rolls a few feet. I blow.

It's only a failure if you don't learn from it, or live through it. I've learned to leave the macho mano-au-mano matches to guys with better psyche's for it, and to stick to letting my eyes glaze over when I see a little old lady getting mugged at knifepoint. Being a slow learner, however, it took awhile for that to sink in, and surrender to it.

D.

[Carol]

So would it be more accurate to ask what we have learned from Kenpo situations that didn't quite go the way we idealized it?

[Brother John]

Ok I can deffinitely understand you and agree with you. It is like golf....it is not the golf club it is the golfer!

RIGHT!
It's not a system of fighting.
It's a system to prepare a person to fight.

I like the golf analogy also. THOUGH....I MUST wholeheartedly disagree with you. I played golf for a couple of years back in the mid 90's and my clubs seemed to be VERY disfunctional! I had to punish many of them by terrifying them with a hearty throw and now and again I had to make an example of one by delivering a strong "front knee strike" at it's center....hoping that the remaining ones would quake in fear.
Unfortunately....they all ended up NEEDING this treatment...
that's why it was in the mid-90's and not today.


Your Brother "FORE!!!!!!"
John

[KenpoJuJitsu3]

If the art fails the person then by logic...

1) Guns kill people by themselves and should be tried in court, not the shooter.

2) Pencils and keyboards misspell words, not the person

3) Whatever basketballs Michael Jordan was playing with were awesome, he only threw them but THEY went in the hoop on their own.

[John M. La Tourrette]

How can a loss in a tournament really be a failure? Every loss should teach you something.

Yep.
Even if you don't win, at least you'll (hopefully) notice what you need to do to win that you didn't do.

FEEDBACK is the breakfast of champions, NOT wheaties.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

[John M. La Tourrette]

Well, when I was a yellow belt and I was 12, I was walking with my big-mouth cousin in SF.

A big bully girl came up to us and started picking on us. My cousin, who was 9 then, said, "You better watch out because my big cousin takes karate."

I stood like I was tough (as if), but inside I was thinking, "shutupshutupshutup"

So the bully cold-cocked me in the jaw. One big punch. I stood firm like it didn't hurt until she walked out of sight.

Then I grabbed my jaw and held back the tears as we hurried home.

I didn't block. I didn't go into any kind of stance. I didn't move out of the way.

So, I guess it's fair to say that MY kenpo didn't work for me right then -- largely because I didn't use it. lol.

That's my story.

--Amy

Amy,
What else did you learn from that?
What did you then decide to do with your training that would address that Triple Warmer over arousal?
Sincerely,
Doc John

[John M. La Tourrette]

When you get your head handed to you by the TKD guy 'cause kenpo doesn't have an ideal technique for use against a 360 degree jump spinning axe kick.Thats a joke....

I know it was a joke, and the answer is, "You step into his spin, and you break his timing, and he falls to the ground".
Doc John

[John M. La Tourrette]

If the art fails the person then by logic...

1) Guns kill people by themselves and should be tried in court, not the shooter.

2) Pencils and keyboards misspell words, not the person

3) Whatever basketballs Michael Jordan was playing with were awesome, he only threw them but THEY went in the hoop on their own.

I really love your intelligence AND...

...YOUR sense of humor.

You are talking about "living at cause" versus "living at effect".

Taking your own responsibility for your own results.

This is a "Get Sxxt Done" type of personality profile.
Doc John

[Z-Rex]

3) Whatever basketballs Michael Jordan was playing with were awesome, he only threw them but THEY went in the hoop on their own.

You mean they weren't magic basketballs?!? Sure looked that way.

--note--
I originally wrote magic balls, but didn't know him that way.

[bdparsons]

It is like golf....it is not the golf club it is the golfer!

Obviously you have never been on the links with a proper attitutde... It's ALWAYS the club!!

Way back in '72 I had been studying Kenpo for about six weeks. One of the resident jock-jerks in our high school had a locker next to mine. True to form he began to hassle me. (I was 6'2" and 130 lbs... then) I decided I had had enough and began to step back into my newly learned neutral bow to teach this guy the lesson he deserved... woke up a few minutes later with a growing lump on my jaw.

Let's just say that's the last time I made that my first move.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

[John M. La Tourrette]

Way back in '72 I had been studying Kenpo for about six weeks. One of the resident jock-jerks in our high school had a locker next to mine. True to form he began to hassle me. (I was 6'2" and 130 lbs... then) I decided I had had enough and began to step back into my newly learned neutral bow to teach this guy the lesson he deserved... woke up a few minutes later with a growing lump on my jaw.

Let's just say that's the last time I made that my first move.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

Yep.
I learned that same lesson back in 1962.
3 guys, and I started talking. Next thing I knew I woke up as they were driving away.
It really pissed me off.
They hit me unfairly, when I wasn't ready.
That was a great lesson to live through.
Dr. John M. La Tourrette

[Celtic_Crippler]

Dropping back into a neutral bow without an accompanying maneuver (like a block or strike) simply keys your intentions to your attacker/opponent and allows them the opportunity to strike first. It violates the principle of not allowing then to "telegraph" your intentions.

I've had some disagree with me that acting first when feeling threatened is wrong based on various reasons, but I still hold that if one makes their intent clear to do you harm in some way DON'T WAIT for them to take a shot at you. As Elvis would say, just "take care of business."