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Thread: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

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    Kempojujutsu is offline
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    Default Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    I am interested in what's on this video collection. Can anyone give info on what will be presented on the video's.

    I come from an Okinawan Kempo background so I have no idea what Fred Villari teaches, other then it's an offshoot of what Cerio and Chow taught. Is it similar to what Parker or Tracy's would teach? How close would it be to Kajukenbo?
    Thanks for any info.
    Bob

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Mr. Villari is very chinese based. It would be very different from a Japanese system to this one.

    He used to have video clip samples on his site but I noticed they are down.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate View Post
    Mr. Villari is very chinese based. It would be very different from a Japanese system to this one.

    He used to have video clip samples on his site but I noticed they are down.
    Our school is an independant school that teaches basically this same system.

    I wouldn't go so far as to day it is "very Chinese based". Despite the name and the marketing the real amount of CMA that was incorporated into this system by Mr. Villari was pretty superficial as far as I can tell. (From practicing the system for the last 4 years, and from talking to some very old timers who were there when FV was building the system).

    What you will find on that DVD is video instruction (well, more like demonstration) of Villari's Shaolin Kempo Karate techniques and forms.

    If you are familiar with Nick Cerio's Kenpo then this will look similar. If you are familiar with Kajukenbo it will look vaguley reminiscent of it. You will see more manipulations and throws than you see in EPAK, some different stances and footwork (half moon stance and C-Step for example). If you know the Pinan forms then you will see them on there too.

    What you might find missing is the depth of definition of principles and specific terminology. You will see that the principles are still there (mostly) but not as "codified" as in Mr. Parkers work.

    I've seen a bit of Mr. Oyata's work and if you squint really hard you might see some similarities... but IMHO they would be because arms only bend (or not bend) in a finite number of ways more so than any other reason of lineage or history.

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    DavidCC,

    Thanks for the info. I have never really seen Nick Cerio Kenpo, but if it looks similar to Kajukenbo, then I know what you are talking about. I am glad they have joint locks and throws. That is one thing I don't like about EPAK. The Pinan's are probably closer to the Japanese Heian then the Okinawan Pinan's-right?

    What you might find missing is the depth of definition of principles and specific terminology. You will see that the principles are still there (mostly) but not as "codified" as in Mr. Parkers work.
    Good this tends to bore me, at least how Parker explains it.

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    Our school is an independant school that teaches basically this same system.

    I wouldn't go so far as to day it is "very Chinese based". Despite the name and the marketing the real amount of CMA that was incorporated into this system by Mr. Villari was pretty superficial as far as I can tell. (From practicing the system for the last 4 years, and from talking to some very old timers who were there when FV was building the system).

    What you will find on that DVD is video instruction (well, more like demonstration) of Villari's Shaolin Kempo Karate techniques and forms.

    If you are familiar with Nick Cerio's Kenpo then this will look similar. If you are familiar with Kajukenbo it will look vaguley reminiscent of it. You will see more manipulations and throws than you see in EPAK, some different stances and footwork (half moon stance and C-Step for example). If you know the Pinan forms then you will see them on there too.

    What you might find missing is the depth of definition of principles and specific terminology. You will see that the principles are still there (mostly) but not as "codified" as in Mr. Parkers work.

    I've seen a bit of Mr. Oyata's work and if you squint really hard you might see some similarities... but IMHO they would be because arms only bend (or not bend) in a finite number of ways more so than any other reason of lineage or history.

    My mistake. From what I have seen and his reference to "shaolin" I assumed it was more chinese than japanese.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    I have the entire series. While it is not the worst program out there I can say that I wasn't impressed by the instruction. The quality of the production is poor. I have seen worse but it is not great. The sound is messed up on a few tapes. I did a video by video breakdown on Canam but that forum went away and I don't have copies.

    The system itself is very much karate. They just do the movements in a softer manner and there are more circular movements than you would find in Shotokan or TKD. Many of the self defense techniques are not that great but I am a more practical tactical type of guy so take that with a grain of salt.

    If you are looking for a traditional karate video program you could do a lot worse. You could also do a lot better. I recomend the Karate Connection program. The name is cheesy but the program is supperior in both instruction and production value. The Karate Connection orange belt tape has more in depth instruction than the entire Villari set. I hope this helps

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Quote Originally Posted by Kempojujutsu View Post
    DavidCC,

    Thanks for the info. I have never really seen Nick Cerio Kenpo, but if it looks similar to Kajukenbo, then I know what you are talking about. I am glad they have joint locks and throws. That is one thing I don't like about EPAK. The Pinan's are probably closer to the Japanese Heian then the Okinawan Pinan's-right?

    Good this tends to bore me, at least how Parker explains it.
    Some misinformed have claimed that SKK techniques are similar to Kajukenbo, but if your familiar with Kajukenbo, you won't recognize any Kajukenbo techniques in the Villari series. There are 2 series of DVD's on the Kajukenbo system. The Panther Productions series sold by Century Martial Arts Supply, and Emperado's World Kajukenbo Organization series sold here: http://kajukenboinfo.com/kajukenbo_products.aspx

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bishop View Post
    Some misinformed have claimed that SKK techniques are similar to Kajukenbo, but if your familiar with Kajukenbo, you won't recognize any Kajukenbo techniques in the Villari series...
    Oh, I know, I didn't mean to imply that there was anything but a vague resemblance between the 2...

    I have the panther kajukenbo series, and when I watched it last, my exeprience was that every once in a while I would see some part of a technique that looked like some part of a technique that we do...


    But otherwise I mostly concur with what others have said about the Villari tapes. If you are looking for Shaolin Kempo videos, you could do worse than the Villari tapes...

    If you just want beginner to mid-level material, and aren't looking for specifically Villari's Shaolin Kempo, we have produced DVDs for white through blue available here http://www.kempokarate.com/geary_collection.cfm

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Actually there is allot of excellent Kenpo on DVD today.

    Most of the Kenpo Seniors and many of the people in the journey have some great material out there.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate View Post
    Actually there is allot of excellent Kenpo on DVD today.

    Most of the Kenpo Seniors and many of the people in the journey have some great material out there.
    Very true

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate View Post
    Actually there is allot of excellent Kenpo on DVD today.

    Most of the Kenpo Seniors and many of the people in the journey have some great material out there.
    I agree.. I was specifically referring to Shaolin Kempo Karate, there doesn't seem to be too much of that beyond the Villari and USSD. but if you know of others, especially if they are well done, then please list them

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    So the 108 combinations, the kata's ar on this DVD series?

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    I went ahead and bought this dvd, just to check it out. All the kata's are on the dvd. But only about 27 combinations are found on the dvd.

    What I found confusing about this system was the numbering system they use for the combination. At Orange belt there's combination #2, then at purple we have #4 & 18 and at blue we have #8 & 9. Then there are the non numbering combinations known as Kempo techniques.

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    the numbering is confusing, I don't know why we use numbers and then don't go in numerical order.

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    So when they talk about the 108 combinations, that doesn't included the Kempo techniques that are also combinations-right?

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    My particular incarnation of SKK does not teach any of the "kempos". So I asked some guys who do own shcools that teach "kempos" and what I was told was : the difference between the numbered combos and the kempos is that the numbred combos have numbers and the kempos do not. Instructors teach the kempos they like, and make up their own.

    so I think the 108 is 108 combos and the kempos are extra.

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Does anyone know where I can get Nick Cerio's video tapes? I have been on a long journey through cyber space and I can't give up looking. Hopefully someone will have some info for me. Thanks.

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    the numbering is confusing, I don't know why we use numbers and then don't go in numerical order.

    I can Probably help in that..
    I am close to alot of the higher ranks in the Villari's Org..
    The Combinations are from 1-108, However, Combination 1 for example, is way too difficult for a white belt to do. Therefore, most people learn combination 6-7 at white belt. As you go up, and lets say make First degree, you'll get your combinations in order then on.
    The First 30 are taught out of order.

    What I'm saying is, The numbers were there before GM Villari decided to teach them as we teach them now.
    I'm trying not to give away certain information, but this is a pretty good explanation for it.

    Hope I helped some.

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    Quote Originally Posted by Kempojujutsu View Post
    So when they talk about the 108 combinations, that doesn't included the Kempo techniques that are also combinations-right?

    The 108 combo's are OUTSIDE the Kempo's, yes.

    The Kempo's are usually animal based, and each instructor will probably have their own 'favorite' kempo's they'll teach.
    I have 25-30 Kempos I was taught and wrote down, I've actually never made up my own. I just use what my teachers gave me.

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    Default Re: Fred Villari's White to Black Video

    The first 26 combos are almost identical as the techniques found in Karazenpo Goshinjutsu. If you go to Joe Rebelo's youtube page you will see some of the Karazenpo techniques. Jim Brassard has some posted on the Shaolin Kempo techs on youtube as well.

    If you look at Karazenpo combo #6, it is almost identical to the Shaolin Kempo #6. Mr. Rebelo even goes over the history of it in Karazenpo. That it was originally for a step in with the left foot punch right, or a right cross which leaves the bladder/groin area open. But, if you do a stepthrough like most do today it closes that target off to a punch.

    Shaolin Kempo does have a connection to Kajukenbo so you will see some similarites. Sonny Gascon studied under Emperado for a time after his first instructor John Leoning passed on (Leoning brought Kajukenbo to the mainland). Nick Cerio learned from Sonny Gascon and Fred Villari was a black belt under Nick Cerio.

    I have also read that Nick Cerio went and studied "at the source" so to speak with Prof. Chow and that some of the combos are a result of studying with Prof. Chow. Prof. Chow promoted Nick Cerio to 5th degree BB in his system. Villari learned from Cerio and then added his own material as well. I have read "where" the chinese influence supposedly came from but I have never seen definitive proof.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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