View Poll Results: Who is more responsible for a Kenpoist ability?

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  • Their Instructor holds the most responsibility

    5 21.74%
  • The student is more responsible

    18 78.26%
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Thread: Who's Responsible?

  1. #1
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    Default Who's Responsible?

    Who is more responsible for a kenpoist ability to perform?

    Please take the time to elaborate on how you voted and why. Thanks!

    ....this should be interesting.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    You need to have "Both" as an option. It's the instructor's job to provide accurate, valid information. It's the student's job to listen, learn and apply what they've been taught. If you have great ability but a crappy instructor, it's not going to work. If you have a great instructor but a lazy, inattentive student, it's not going to work.

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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    the queston is MORE.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    If we are each responsible for our own thoughts, our own actions and our own feelings, then how can anyone else be responsible for our anything?

    If someone has a sub-par instructor, it seems that after a time, they would be able to figure that out. There is so much material available on the internet and just through videos and many people have the option to get themselves videotaped, it would be hard to miss it when you're not doing something right.

    If you go to a camp or a seminar, you can also compare yourselves to others. If everyone you meet at your rank is faster, sharper and their stuff is cleaner, then look at what you're learning.

    On the other hand, if you are the one who looks sharper, faster and cleaner than others, be grateful for your good instructor and your good ability to pick up the information.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    Yet another excellent point of view, Amy.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    "You can lead a horse to water but you can not make them drink." The student is more responsible, they should take the initiative and want to learn. They should take what they are learning and look at it and not just go through the motions. Thye should understand why they are doing what they are doing. The instructor can only help so much.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    Then I would say the instructor. Garbage in, garbage out. That said, as the student becomes more advanced, I would say that the burden switches to the student. Along the lines of what Amy had to say, there should come a point in training where the student realizes that he's not getting the proper instruction.
    Last edited by jdinca; 01-31-2007 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Not done with the thought.

  8. #8
    Pat Munk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    It's the student ...

    Just because a student is subpar or below average so to speak doesn't say the the instructor is bad ...

    The garbage in garbage out statement isn't always correct. Even the best instructors can have students that just can't seem to be the best ..... As an instructor it's our job to make the student the best THEY can be .... even if that isn't what is considered excellent. It's the students job to excel to the best of his ability.


    I've seen first hand how two students given the same exact training will have different skill levels. One excellent ... the other so so .... If it were a bad instructor .. then both would be expected to be bad ...
    Pat Munk, Judan
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    mord_sith_14 is offline
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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    As stated before, the instructor has to be resposible for giving the student the knowledge. After that it is the student's responsibility. In my class, there are students like me, that take to heart what the instructor says, and then there are the others that do not listen, are restless, check the clock, and don't practice. I believe that if the student does not care, they will not learn, so in the end it is the responsibility of the student.
    Karate Girl

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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Munk View Post
    It's the student ...

    Just because a student is subpar or below average so to speak doesn't say the the instructor is bad ...

    The garbage in garbage out statement isn't always correct. Even the best instructors can have students that just can't seem to be the best ..... As an instructor it's our job to make the student the best THEY can be .... even if that isn't what is considered excellent. It's the students job to excel to the best of his ability.


    I've seen first hand how two students given the same exact training will have different skill levels. One excellent ... the other so so .... If it were a bad instructor .. then both would be expected to be bad ...
    That's why I have trouble with the question There are too many variables. I' e had students that I thought would never get it, who ended up surprising me. I've also had students that never live up to expectations, no matter how, or how much instruction they are given.

    You're right, if the instructor was bad, then both would be bad. But without quality instruction from the beginning, the good one will never achieve his/her best, no matter how much he/she tries.

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    Billy Lear is offline
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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    I would say it is situational.

    In a case where the students are minors, and they don't have a choice about where they learn, it is MOSTLY a reflection on the instructor's ability to teach/coach at that point.

    In a case where the student is an adult, the burden is clearly on the student. An adult has the ability to take their money and go somewhere else if they FEEL they're not getting good (or effective) instruction.

    Obviously the responsibility for regurgitating ca ca Kenpo is SHARED by both the student and instructor, but this question is about who is MORE cullpable for doing so.

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    Billy Lear is offline
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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    One more thing is worth mentioning... Instructor's are the source for the information in the system. If more and more of them get lazier and lazier because people don't hold them to a higher standard of performance, then it's everyone's fault.

    (Who to blame... the chicken or the egg?)

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    sifuroy is offline In Memory of our Departed Friend
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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    The responsibility first lies with the instructor making sure that a student knows the proper execution of a technique. You have to be very rigid on how you test and not let anything slide by. You are not doing them any favors by passing on sub standard execution. After the student knows the technique ,it should be Their responsibility to practice and stay up on their material. Both the instructor and the student share the responsibility. You the instructor can not do your students testing, But you can make sure they are ready and at their best for it.

    The old mans 2 cents

    I am Most Respectfully,
    sifuroy

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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear View Post
    ca ca Kenpo
    thanks billy, i haven't heard that in a while, which means i owe a friend a phone call....
    "Rust Never Sleeps" - N.Young.

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    Billy Lear is offline
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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by sifuroy View Post
    The responsibility first lies with the instructor making sure that a student knows the proper execution of a technique. You have to be very rigid on how you test and not let anything slide by. You are not doing them any favors by passing on sub standard execution. After the student knows the technique ,it should be Their responsibility to practice and stay up on their material. Both the instructor and the student share the responsibility. You the instructor can not do your students testing, But you can make sure they are ready and at their best for it.

    The old mans 2 cents

    I am Most Respectfully,
    sifuroy
    I agree with your assessment.

    In the long run I believe that it's an instructor's OBLIGATION to TRAIN their students to be just as good as, if not better than they are.

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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    I believe there should have been a third choice. It should be a joint responsibility between the student and the teacher.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    I agree that the student is responsible for not only learning and listening but also testing the material. At the same time the instructor is the source of knowledge and even the most dilligent student will learn what they are taught. Just my 2c.

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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    The instructor should be providing good material, what the student does with that material is up to them.

    The skill level of the student (IMO) is a result of diligent training and properly applying the the lessons they have learned.
    The test: "Will this work so that I can use it instinctively in vital combat against an opponent who is determined to prevent me from doing so, and who is striving to eliminate me by fair means or foul?" ~ Col. Rex Applegate

    Matt K.

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    Kosho Gakkusei is offline
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    Default Re: Who's Responsible?

    I've heard it said that everyone has two teachers & the most important one is you. If that teacher is not teaching you will not learn.

    _Don Flatt

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    kenpochrstn is offline
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    Talking Re: Who's Responsible?

    I think that it is ultimately a even split. The student can't ingest what the instuctor does'nt share. The instructor can't teach what the student does'nt chew on. I am feeling very Mr.Miyagi like this morning,L.O.L..

    1stJohn1:9

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