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Thread: Short 3 self defense applications

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    nelson is offline
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    Default Short 3 self defense applications

    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    Does anyone have a list of self defense applications for the moves in short 3? I understand that there are different variations between Kenpo schools but I would hope that there would be more agreement than disagreement over most of the form sequences.

    Just to start the discussion I wondering how most folks see the first move with the double puncn sequence. Are you striking an opponent that has a left or right hand lead? When you do the strike are you then doing an outward block with the front hand to a grab to a midsection strike with the back hand? I've seen some folks stike high while others strike low with the back hand. Is there a resource on this site or elsewhere where the original sequence by EP is demonstrated and explained?

    Thanks for your help!

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    dubljay is offline
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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    None of the katas ever had applications in mind when they were created. They are used to teach concepts, not the application of those concepts. (At least thats what I understand)

    Secondly begining with short 3 up through long 6, are entirely made up of SD techs right off the list.


    Short 3 is as follows

    1. Destructive twins (2 hand lapel grab)
    2. Crashing Wings (bearhug from behind arms free)
    3. Twirling Wing (rear choke)
    4. Circling wing (rear choke)
    5. Crossing Tallon (wrist grab)
    6. Scraping Hoof (full nelson)
    7. Fatal Cross (low push)
    8. Grip of death (flank head lock)
    9. Locked Wing (hammer lock)
    10. Crossed Twigs (double wrist grab from behind)
    11. Wings of silk (double arm bar)
    12. Conquering Shild (lapel grab)
    13. Striking Serpent's Head (bear hug from the front *someone trying to pick you up*)

    You'll notice for Short and Long 3 all the self defense techniques are for a grappling situation. My instructor refered to the 3's as the wrestling forms.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    Does anyone have a list of self defense applications for the moves in short 3? I understand that there are different variations between Kenpo schools but I would hope that there would be more agreement than disagreement over most of the form sequences.

    Just to start the discussion I wondering how most folks see the first move with the double puncn sequence. Are you striking an opponent that has a left or right hand lead? When you do the strike are you then doing an outward block with the front hand to a grab to a midsection strike with the back hand? I've seen some folks stike high while others strike low with the back hand. Is there a resource on this site or elsewhere where the original sequence by EP is demonstrated and explained?

    Thanks for your help!
    dubljay has provided a good answer. You need to know the self defense techniques to begin to see understand how they are applied in the forms. If you know the self defense techniques, then you are off to a good start. There are some things in the forms that are different than the technique. Usually, there is a reason for that, too. If you can find it.

    Now, with all that being said. I recently posted my descriptions of Short 3 on another thread. This write-up is a portion of my Black Belt thesis.

    Perhaps, it will answer some of your questions.

    Your Black Belt Thesis

    Mike

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    nelson is offline
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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    Thanks for the help on short 3!
    I was shown some of the SD applications to the form years ago and I was a LITTLE fuzzy on them. Maybe some of you can relate to what it's like to look at notes that you took 20 years back and go "Huh?"

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    dubljay is offline
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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    Thanks for the help on short 3!
    I was shown some of the SD applications to the form years ago and I was a LITTLE fuzzy on them. Maybe some of you can relate to what it's like to look at notes that you took 20 years back and go "Huh?"

    Oh I can relate to that. I've looked at notes from 20 minutes ago and when 'huh?"



    Michaeledward... simply a brilliant write up. Thanks for sharing that.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    If you havent discover this yet.
    Mr Joshua Ryer has online tips
    you can find them on his website or youtube.
    this link here will take you to short 3.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZiKD...%20ed%20parker

    He is a student of Mr Huk Planas.
    Mr Ryer has a lot of great tip and hints.

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    nelson is offline
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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Dear NM99:
    Thanks!
    The video is fantastic!
    I will pass it on to my fellow Kenpo brothers.

    Nelson

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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Quote Originally Posted by dubljay View Post
    Michaeledward... simply a brilliant write up. Thanks for sharing that.
    Thanks.

    I was shooting for 'descriptive' or maybe 'accurate' ... but I can live with brilliant

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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Hey no problem, Just drop an email to Mr Ryer , telling him that he is doing a great job. I gotta credit where credit is due.

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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    How many out there practise Short 3 as a 'mass attack'? We do the form in the air but we also practise it as a three person form with #1 the defender and #2 and #3 attacking as we go.

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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Quote Originally Posted by dubljay View Post
    None of the katas ever had applications in mind when they were created. They are used to teach concepts, not the application of those concepts. (At least thats what I understand)

    Secondly begining with short 3 up through long 6, are entirely made up of SD techs right off the list.

    Could you please explain what you mean by this? I agree, the forms consist of SD techs right off the lists. How do you reconcile that with your first statement? If you understand the SD techs, then of course the katas had application in mind...
    Michael


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    execkenpo is offline
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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    Could you please explain what you mean by this? I agree, the forms consist of SD techs right off the lists. How do you reconcile that with your first statement? If you understand the SD techs, then of course the katas had application in mind...
    To add my two cents to what you said, we also practise applications to all of our forms and some sets. For example we teach that the application to short one when using double factor blocks is a defense against a left/right or right/left punch.

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    Richard Baarspul is offline
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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    How many out there practise Short 3 as a 'mass attack'? We do the form in the air but we also practise it as a three person form with #1 the defender and #2 and #3 attacking as we go.
    I did short form 3 a few times as part of a Kenpo Demo! I first showed it solo and right after the that the team positioned around me and starting attacking me. I runned the whole form again with attackers! Great to do.....
    Richard Baarspul
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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Baarspul View Post
    I did short form 3 a few times as part of a Kenpo Demo! I first showed it solo and right after the that the team positioned around me and starting attacking me. I runned the whole form again with attackers! Great to do.....
    I had a friend who wanted to do that as part of a tournament (creative) form, except that the attackers would be dressed as hospital orderlies and him as a bit of a nut. The end of the form would be the orderlies finally shoving him into the straitjacket and dragging him off, he called it the "insane asylum form."

    Lamont
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    Default Re: Short 3 self defense applications

    all I have too say on this one is forms are to work on your mechanics and techniques are too work on self defense.

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