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Thread: Shoulder Rolls

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    Default Shoulder Rolls

    I have put off teaching these because of my injured knee, but I know they need to be introduced.

    At what point do you start teaching them?

    I think the first technique this comes up in is somewhere in green.

    I think I learned them at blue.

    Any comments on them in general?

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    I have put off teaching these because of my injured knee, but I know they need to be introduced.

    At what point do you start teaching them?

    I think the first technique this comes up in is somewhere in green.

    I think I learned them at blue.

    Any comments on them in general?

    --Amy
    I teach them to white belts. That way they get used to the floor right from the beginning.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    Rolling, similar to falling can be important. I believe I learned them at Orange and had to know them at Purple. We definitely don't stress falling and rolling but they are both good skills to keep fresh.
    Loyal student of Sifu DangeRuss
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    "Jeet Kune Do: it's just a name; don't fuss over it. There's no such thing as a style if you understand the roots of combat." -Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    In the 70's breakfalls was one of the first things the students learned. I think eventually it was moved into the purple belt area regarding American Kenpo.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    I remember them being at purple in the syllabus, but I also remember being introduced to them at white. They're good to work into a class focused on ground drills. Make a night of it!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    I learned how to fall and roll right from the very start.......i think it's just as important, if not more than the rest of the stuff.

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    Break-falls and rolls are generally taught very soon in Kara-Ho, although it is at the discretion of the instructor as to when exactly they are taught.

    Takedowns, sweeps and joint locks are all introduced early on so everyone needs to get familiar with Mr. Floor.

    We have very thick mats to learn on, then those blue mats that are thinner (they velcro together), then the dojo floor which is VERY thin carpet, over concrete.

    My old instructor had us do them outside on the pavement a few times when we "thought" we were very good at them.

    I like to incorporate drills with shoulder-rolls. For eg. the student does a forward shoulder roll toward the Uke, and when they stand up the uke will call out a technique, then attack the "roller". I feel it is beneficial because even students who roll well, often come up off balanced or "rickity"- the technique forces them to get on "one-point" and be able to perform.

    I also have a drill where I sit at the other end of the mat and as they begin their roll I toss them a tennis ball (or 2 or 3)- they must catch the ball(s) with the hand(s) they are rolling over (r-hand, r-shoulder roll) and again come up balanced and ready to rock!

    Another is leaving an object on the mat and having the student roll and pick it up as they perform the roll. A knife (rubber) for example---

    We have an Aikido influence so rolls are often the order of the day!

    James
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    I'm glad this was brought up. In my past (Japanese styles: Aikido & Ju Jitsu) we learned rolls and breakfalls right away. Every class from beginner to advanced dedicates some amount of time in the beginning of each class to this training. To me it broke my fear of falling right away.

    When I started my journey in Kenpo in April, 06 (still just a newbie) I was in a way suprised that it was not taught in the beginning. I think I was still thinking in terms of my previous training. Then when we would run technique lines and some of the black belts would run techniques and take me down they would try to figure out what I was doing. I was told, you can't take a breakfall because you were new. After a while my instructor told them it was OK because of previous training. Now that I've moved though to Orange I still have not seen them in my training.

    The interesting thing I find is that from my previous training I find points in techniques where I can feel a breakfall to escape or start a sacrifice fall. I think it's helped me a great deal in my kenpo training and wish it were soemthing we worked on more.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    We learned them early!

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    Plus good breakfalls make good Uke's ...
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    Breakfalls and rolls should be drilled into a students head at the onset of training. Lesson one, in addition to the horse stance, push-ups and jumping jacks, should include side and rear breakfalls.

    My own opining,

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    I have to agree with the sentiment expressed, I learned to break falls and rolling when I spent time in Aikidobut, I don't see much of it until the upper ranks in Kenpo. I remember my Aikido instructor used to call rolling the "20 year technique"
    "Change is not necessary...Survival is not mandatory" - W. Edward Deming

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Takai View Post
    I have to agree with the sentiment expressed, I learned to break falls and rolling when I spent time in Aikidobut, I don't see much of it until the upper ranks in Kenpo. I remember my Aikido instructor used to call rolling the "20 year technique"
    It's called that for many of reasons. One of which is that from the center of a tatami you should from sieza be able to 8 rolls within the confines of one mat. It's pretty tough to do. Ukemi in Aikido is pretty tough at times but it takes forever to perfect it... I'm still learning new things even after 16 years in Aikido... 4 more to go I guess...
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    Benny The Jet was involved in many systems over the years including kenpo. One video I saw of him in his youth and man could that guy breakfall.

    Now he has founded Ukidokan. His own take on the arts.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate View Post
    Benny The Jet was involved in many systems over the years including kenpo. One video I saw of him in his youth and man could that guy breakfall.

    Now he has founded Ukidokan. His own take on the arts.
    Would that be the Budojujustu tape by Al Thomas? I have that tape and it is awesome.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Shoulder Rolls

    Here is another segment from my ebook that fits in well with this topic. A student has to be able to be cognitive of everything around them when they are rolling, so I figured this might give a little insight to what happens when rolling.

    What Is Spatial Orientation?

    It is one’s ability/inability to be perceptive and functional in situations such as:
    the body inverted
    the body rotating
    the body at heights
    the body in flight

    Why Is Spatial Orientation Important?

    Safety in the martial arts is, of course, paramount. It is also dependant upon the student knowing where they are.

    The execution of many skills relies on the correct training of some muscular action during the performance of the skill. The more aware the student is of what the body is doing, where the body is, where the limbs are relative to the body, etc., the safer the student will be.

    What Limits One’s Spatial Orientation Abilities?

    This motor attribute is governed for the most part, by the kinesthetic sense which is compromised of two main anatomical components: the Vestibular System and the Proprioceptive System. The Vestibular System consists of the semi-circular canals in the middle ear and the Proprioceptive System consists of many different sensory receptors in the muscles, tendons and ligaments that monitor the position of body parts relative to the body.

    As with all other senses, the kinesthetic sense responds to concentrated usage with greater sensitivity and to lack of usage with reduced sensitivity. A person unfamiliar with inversion or rotation can become disoriented very easily and even nauseated when rotated or inverted.

    How Is Spatial Orientation Developed?

    An instructor should systematically expose the students to a variety of situations which will enhance their spatial orientation. By including all the Dominant Movement Patterns in one’s lessons.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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