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Thread: Inflexible partner

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    gardawamtu's Avatar
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    Default Inflexible partner

    How do you deal with a partner that is a bit inflexible when you are training as an underbelt? Should you or should you not try to correct a practice that is hurting your training?

    I was recently practicing parries with someone who tried to block (instead of ride the force), but also was trying to unnaturally force me to block instead of parry. In other words, as I parried a straight punch, this person would try to force the punch against the parry claiming that that is what an attacker would do. I thought that when someone committed a punch, a slight redirection via a parry would be enough to move the punch coming in. This person was trying to "track" my face as the target as I moved and parried instead of sommitting to the punch. How would you explain this to someone as instructors. How would you suggest that an underbelt handle it without sounding like a know-it-all?

    In a related question, how much force to you put into a parry?
    "Let the wookie win."

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    A punch that is thrown in the heat of combat that can be guided, due to slowness of the launch and speed of the travel, isn't a punch, or at least, not much of one. Too many muscles and physical indicators and cues that the punch thrower has to keep in control of for the punch to be effective.

    You either see it coming and control it, or ... You see it coming and control it ... Or you get plowed.

    I'm a bit crusty, so I would suggest that someone talk to the upper classman and tell him to get a grip and go with what the instructor is trying to get taught, instead of trying to instill his own agenda on lower color belts. Or, even better yet, have him present his concept to the head instructor and see where that goes.

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    Thanks for the advice and affirmation. I tend to get paired with this partner and this person tends to be sensitive to critique (while also not understanding what I was trying to say).

    I think I will try to find another partner as often as I can and may talk to the instructor about it.
    "Let the wookie win."

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    Quote Originally Posted by gardawamtu View Post
    Thanks for the advice and affirmation. I tend to get paired with this partner and this person tends to be sensitive to critique (while also not understanding what I was trying to say).

    I think I will try to find another partner as often as I can and may talk to the instructor about it.
    An uncooperative partner can be frustrating. The best thing I would suggest is adapt to the wierd angles and use extra force to make a certain technique work. If you can't make that technique work, then bring your instructor into the mix to have them show you how it should work in this situation. Doing that a few times, the instructor will most likely pick up on your frustration and your partners stuborn actions and correct the situation. Good luck!
    Loyal student of Sifu DangeRuss
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    "Jeet Kune Do: it's just a name; don't fuss over it. There's no such thing as a style if you understand the roots of combat." -Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    The easiest answer to this, was supplied within the past few days by parkerkarate...

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post

    "A salesman on a buisness trip to San Francisco concluded his day's work and decided to go to Chinatown to purchase a few items for his daughter--suvenirs to commemorate his trip. One of the items he purchased was a beautiful Chinese fan of delicate workmanship. His daughter was elated with the gift, but after a weel of use the fan broke into pieces too small to repair. KNowing he would soon return to San Francisco to conduct futher buisness, the salesman gathered the pieces of the fan and packed them in his suit case. He was anxious to confront the Chinese proprietor and hand him the fan and demand a refun. When he saw the proprietor he placed the pieces in his hand and requested a refund. The proprietor examind the pieces and asked the salesman what he had paid for the fan. The anser he gave was fifty cents. The proprietor retorted "When you purchase fifty cent fan, you must place fan in front of face, hold fan very still and move head very fast from left to right. ONly when you purchase dollar fan can you keep your head still and use hand to fan yourself"."


    He than whent on to say:
    This story brings out a very valid point. When a punch is thrown to your head keep your blocking arom still as if it were the fifty cent fan. Do not attempt to block with it, but keep it from moving. Instead, move your head away from the punch. Here is the logic involved--if you move the last point of contact (your head) out of the way first, your reaction can beat your opponents action
    When we practice the drill I imagine you are practicing, you are essentially static, yes? As the goal is to teach you the basic mechanics and reaction to get the basic feel of the parry. Just as we train so many special weapons from a horse stance, it doesn't mean this is how we'd apply them in the real world. The horse stance allows you to divorse your upper and lower halves of the body, to allow you to focus on your hand techniques and all but forget about what is happening with your lower half of the body. The same need be understood of this drill. The goal is to get the feel of the parry, it's not an absolute application of the technique. If it were, you would apply the Cheap Chinese Fan principal, and this would rectify the problem of the overly gung-ho puncher. I would definately, privately voice your concerns to your teacher though, as what is happening is helping neither of you.
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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    The easiest answer to this, was supplied within the past few days by parkerkarate...



    When we practice the drill I imagine you are practicing, you are essentially static, yes? As the goal is to teach you the basic mechanics and reaction to get the basic feel of the parry. Just as we train so many special weapons from a horse stance, it doesn't mean this is how we'd apply them in the real world. The horse stance allows you to divorse your upper and lower halves of the body, to allow you to focus on your hand techniques and all but forget about what is happening with your lower half of the body. The same need be understood of this drill. The goal is to get the feel of the parry, it's not an absolute application of the technique. If it were, you would apply the Cheap Chinese Fan principal, and this would rectify the problem of the overly gung-ho puncher. I would definately, privately voice your concerns to your teacher though, as what is happening is helping neither of you.
    Thanks for the input. Actually, we were taught to move the target and our feet while practicing (which made the "tracking punch" a bit more annoying). We were in a fighting stance and were told to move in on our opponent. I had no problems with the drill. I'm just trying to discern how best to handle this kind of situation. If it continues, I will mention it privately to the instructor.
    "Let the wookie win."

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    muscle moves in one direction at a time. When someone attackes with anger they are thinking of one thing, hitting you hard. With the kids I us a analgy of playing tug-a-war and you let the rope go, or pulling the chair out from under someone when they are about to sit down.

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    Unless this partner of yours has laser guided punches it's not likely that the path of a strike would alter that drastically in response to a parry, nor is it likely that when executed "street speed" that this would be possible. It's simple physics "An object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by another force." -Newton

    Some people love inflexible partners because it's fun seeing how Kenpo really works. Know what I mean? When working out with these types you have to "execute' a little more to get the desired reaction. After a few of these "executions" they usually catch on and cooperate a little more.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    sifuroy is offline In Memory of our Departed Friend
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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    Celtic is right about one thing the more painful the execution is the sooner they respond.

    I am most Respectfully,
    sifuroy

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    The next tiem you have a person say "this is what a person would really do on the street" give them a cup check and let them know that is what you would do on the street.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    I had a former boxer pay us a visit at work. He was told by some of my co-workers that I was a black belt. I shook his hand never meeting him before and he proceded to tell me how martial arts didnt work, boxing was superior and such.

    I said OK what range do you have to be to hit me. He moved into position to jab at me and I threw a low side kick to his front knee, checking his jab at the same time.

    Even though he was much taller than me his punch was out of range and my kick was not.

    He said "I used to be faster". I said me too. LOL.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate View Post
    I had a former boxer pay us a visit at work. He was told by some of my co-workers that I was a black belt. I shook his hand never meeting him before and he proceded to tell me how martial arts didnt work, boxing was superior and such.

    I said OK what range do you have to be to hit me. He moved into position to jab at me and I threw a low side kick to his front knee, checking his jab at the same time.

    Even though he was much taller than me his punch was out of range and my kick was not.

    He said "I used to be faster". I said me too. LOL.
    LOL! Well done!

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate View Post
    I had a former boxer pay us a visit at work. He was told by some of my co-workers that I was a black belt. I shook his hand never meeting him before and he proceded to tell me how martial arts didnt work, boxing was superior and such.

    I said OK what range do you have to be to hit me. He moved into position to jab at me and I threw a low side kick to his front knee, checking his jab at the same time.

    Even though he was much taller than me his punch was out of range and my kick was not.

    He said "I used to be faster". I said me too. LOL.
    Classic!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Classic!
    Kind of reminded me of the movie "Princess Bride" the whole I am not left handed comment. Then I invited him to the seminar this weekend to show him Kenpo. He declined.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Inflexible partner

    While I agree that a fully committed strike can not change directions mid-flight. It is important to consider that pre-commitment and at the start of the strike course corrections are not only possible but naturally occur without thought. You must consider this and eliminate your opponents ability to track you.
    I prefer a partner that is trying to track me so I can be aware of my telegraphs and timing errors. Be aware of your partners visual plane and move what he can't see first. Within kicking and punching range means he will see you from the waist up therefore disconnect your lower and upper base and move the lower to where you want to go while giving the illusion that you haven't moved. You can practice this in a mirror, you should not see any movement especially in the head. Allow the opponent to think he will hit you then re-connect lower and upper at the last possible moment.

    A pointer regarding parries: Use your hips to parry not you arms. Align your hand to your center line and rotate your hips slightly to parry. Your partners arm strength will not be able to move proper body alignment. This will be effortless on your part.

    _Don Flatt

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