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Thread: Protocol question

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    Default Protocol question

    Hypothetically speaking, of course, if a black belt wished to leave his or her instructor to go to another instructor (and association), what's the protocol involved?

    I know that I'd need to tell my instructor (dread dread dread), but is there anything else that needs to happen?

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Nothing really has to be done. But expect to do a lot of re-learning to do things the way teh new instructor/association wants them. I have seen Black Belts return to white belt when switching.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    The re-learning isn't a problem. I've done that lots of times (which is why it took me so long to get to black).

    I was told by one person that the two instructors would have to talk. I guess to make sure it's amicable or something.

    Has anyone else heard that?

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Protocol question

    If I was the new instructor, I would personally call the old instructor and find out what is the reason for the switch. At the very least I get to hear the other side of the story.

    As a student who was switching, I would want to talk to my instructor about why I am leaving. He may not like it, but at least he would hear why I had made such a decision.

    Lamont
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    Default Re: Protocol question

    In my other life there is a good deal of competition and various camps. People tend to cluster around authorities and take what they say as "gospel." Switching groups can be hard. I have personally tried very hard not to burn bridges and still have good relationships with those teachers,many of whom don't care for the others. They all know I respect and usually have good relationships with the others. It is a tightrope I walk but it enables me to benefit from many others and to integrate what I learn from each of them. Now as a teacher, I have many who I have trained and have gone into other areas. I ask these people to do what I have done and to bring back what they have learned to enrich myself, the others I have trained, and those yet to come. I believe Ed Parker said something similar. I guess what I am trying to say in an awkward manner is, Build don't burn bridges, unless absolutely neccesary, you may help yourself andmany others in the process.

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    The re-learning isn't a problem. I've done that lots of times (which is why it took me so long to get to black).

    I was told by one person that the two instructors would have to talk. I guess to make sure it's amicable or something.

    Has anyone else heard that?

    --Amy
    Hi Amy,

    That is very old school and rarely done today. Really its a simple courtesy to tell your current instructor you are leaving for your own reasons. You keep your knowledge, your skills etc. Leave on good terms and remain friendly with them and simply explore your new path and enjoy it. It may still be done in Asia but not here.

    I remember a long time ago I was given a letter by my old instructor to take to a new one when I moved out of state but again that was 20+ years ago and just really isn't done anymore.

    Take care,
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    In my experience I spoke with both the new and old instructor. I was careful to make sure I did not burn any bridge and just thank them for sharing the knowledge shared with me. I think things are just more policital in switching associations. I think instructors understand but don't want to lose a good student.

    I have been put in between two persons that just disliked each other. This was a difficult situation, but I think in the end what's best for you is just what best period!
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Funny, but true and alive for some. I actually needed this letter when I was working in Japan. For me to train @ Aikikai Hombu Dojo I was required to provide a letter or formal introduction from my instructor and a secondary letter from his instructor.

    In recent memory I can't remember anything other then an in person conversation to suffice in the the states.

    Quote Originally Posted by florida_kenpo View Post

    I remember a long time ago I was given a letter by my old instructor to take to a new one when I moved out of state but again that was 20+ years ago and just really isn't done anymore.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    These are great points! Unless you are honest, tactfully, with your instructor he/she may be doing something that may or may have already caused other students to leave or stop training all together. I believe that if these reasons are presented in a respectful and tactful manor the instructor can learn of some places where he/she can refine the way they teach in the future.



    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    If I was the new instructor, I would personally call the old instructor and find out what is the reason for the switch. At the very least I get to hear the other side of the story.

    As a student who was switching, I would want to talk to my instructor about why I am leaving. He may not like it, but at least he would hear why I had made such a decision.

    Lamont
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    If I were to say something, it would certainly be with love and respect.

    I try never to burn bridges if I can help it. Leaving one instructor for another isn't necessarily something done out of anger or anything bad.

    It could be that the student wishes to explore new material or perhaps just wants a new approach to old material. Each instructor has something different to offer and I've found that having many different instructors has offered me a unique perspective.

    No matter how it's approached though, it's still difficult.

    It's good to hear that there isn't a lot of protocol involved.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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    Default Re: Protocol question

    In an effort not to burn bridges, you might find something to say to your instructor that sounds not to bad... but as has been mentioned alot of protocols are old school.

    I would say follow the Nike protocol, Just Do It.

    Lee
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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Amy,

    Just be honest and straightforward in your discussion with both of the instructors. This is about your decision, not theirs. If you do everything honestly and politely then that reflects on you. What they do, will reflect on them. Most instructors realize that students, even senior ones, can come and go at anytime that is just a matter of reality.
    "Change is not necessary...Survival is not mandatory" - W. Edward Deming

    "When I hit....I hit the whole enchilada" - Master David Leung

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Quote Originally Posted by ltrossbach View Post
    I would say follow the Nike protocol, Just Do It.

    Funny. I like it. I've got about six weeks or so to stew in it. It's not like I'm going to be giving notice exactly. Or should I?

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Protocol question

    I would give notice, something like. "as of this date i will no longer be a member fo this school. I am giving you this advance notice in order to find someone to take over my teachng duties, and so that we can have a smooth transition for the students I have taught".
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    I would give notice, something like. "as of this date i will no longer be a member fo this school. I am giving you this advance notice in order to find someone to take over my teachng duties, and so that we can have a smooth transition for the students I have taught".

    Oooo I didnt take in to account that you might be an instructor. In that case I would say give them a 2 week notice kinda thing or even a month if generous.

    I was put in this situation when I was running a school and it was bought out... my old instructor was brought in to run it. He asked me to stay on as his equal (in terms of teaching not rank) which made me feel VERY honored. I told him that I really appreciated his request, but it was time for me to find my own way in Martial Arts. To this day we are still great friends and still have the Student/teacher relationship.
    Lee
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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Quote Originally Posted by ltrossbach View Post
    Oooo I didnt take in to account that you might be an instructor. In that case I would say give them a 2 week notice kinda thing or even a month if generous.

    I was put in this situation when I was running a school and it was bought out... my old instructor was brought in to run it. He asked me to stay on as his equal (in terms of teaching not rank) which made me feel VERY honored. I told him that I really appreciated his request, but it was time for me to find my own way in Martial Arts. To this day we are still great friends and still have the Student/teacher relationship.

    I had a lesson with him today and I have to say that it's going to be very very hard. I do love the man and I've been there a long time. He's not going to take it well. Especially since the kickboxing teacher, who did office work too, just left.

    It's not like I think that he doesn't have anything else to teach me. I know he does. It's just that it feels like the right time to go. Know what I mean? And I don't want him to be so angry (i.e. hurt) that he doesn't want to talk to me anymore. ugh.

    I still have other details to work out before I make a final final decision. I just don't want to seem ungrateful in any way. I am very grateful for all that I've learned there. ugh ugh.

    --Amy
    Last edited by Bob Hubbard; 09-11-2006 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Edited by OP request
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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Your instructor is a professional, and will understand your choice to branch out and explore new avenues. If he doesn't accept this then it really is time to move on and not look back.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Could not be said any better...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Your instructor is a professional, and will understand your choice to branch out and explore new avenues. If he doesn't accept this then it really is time to move on and not look back.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    Hypothetically speaking, of course, if a black belt wished to leave his or her instructor to go to another instructor (and association), what's the protocol involved?

    I know that I'd need to tell my instructor (dread dread dread), but is there anything else that needs to happen?

    --Amy
    Of course this is all still Hypothetical !

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    Default Re: Protocol question

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    I had a lesson with him today and I have to say that it's going to be very very hard. I do love the man and I've been there a long time. He's not going to take it well. Especially since the kickboxing teacher, who did office work too, just left.

    It's not like I think that he doesn't have anything else to teach me. I know he does. It's just that it feels like the right time to go. Know what I mean? And I don't want him to be so angry (i.e. hurt) that he doesn't want to talk to me anymore. ugh.

    I still have other details to work out before I make a final final decision. I just don't want to seem ungrateful in any way. I am very grateful for all that I've learned there. ugh ugh.

    --Amy
    Good luck with your final decision. This is not quite a parallel situation, but when I was deciding on doctoral programs I had the choice of staying where I was or going somewhere new. I am glad I chose the latter. Both schools were wonderful (top 5 in my field), so it was not a decision based on talent or opportunity. One teacher at my former school actually advised me to choose the other option. He said the teachers at the school I was at still had much they could teach me, but it might be good to go to another place to essentially learn how to think in different ways. I'm really glad I did, because I would not be the teacher I am now if I didn't.

    Have fun creating your own path.
    "Let the wookie win."

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