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Thread: Katas - Starting and stopping

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    Default Katas - Starting and stopping

    For all of the katas (short form 1 through six), it's my understanding that if done correctly, all the katas start and stop in the same place.

    Tara says that in long form 3, it's one stance over in the Planas line.

    What is your all experience with that?


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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    It's always been my understanding that katas from any style should stop and start in approx the same place. I've never seen one that doesn't follow this pattern actually.

    I can see the one stance off thing, as well. I've never studied much outside of our branch of Kenpo, and a little Shorin Ryu, however.

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    There's only one way to test this. Get in your neutral bow stance, have someone tie something to both your ankles. This way when you step back, forward etc. you will only be able to step as far back as the tied item will let you. That might be a little rough on form 5 with all that jumping, hopping stuff but 'ya know. If you really feel like it.

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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    There's only one way to test this. Get in your neutral bow stance, have someone tie something to both your ankles. This way when you step back, forward etc. you will only be able to step as far back as the tied item will let you. That might be a little rough on form 5 with all that jumping, hopping stuff but 'ya know. If you really feel like it.
    What's your personal experience with doing the katas? Do they start and stop in the same place for you?

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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Good question. I haven't noticed anyone stopping in our curriculum. I only pause if I'm at a point I haven't practiced very much.

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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151
    Good question. I haven't noticed anyone stopping in our curriculum. I only pause if I'm at a point I haven't practiced very much.
    I think you misunderstand the question. I'm talking about when you begin your kata in a horse stance in a certain spot, then you go through the whole thing and end in a horse stance. Are you standing in the same spot as when you started?

    That's the question.

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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Since I am at work I can't run through any but, I tested Short 1 (visual aids only ) on my desk and it does come out one stance off. I will have to look at the other ones when I get home tonight.
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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    yes i was tought the same thing... only we went from the attention stance before the salutation and then when finishing after the salutation...
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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by Takai
    Since I am at work I can't run through any but, I tested Short 1 (visual aids only ) on my desk and it does come out one stance off. I will have to look at the other ones when I get home tonight.
    Short 1 ends one stance off? I've not heard that. I'm thinking that if there are two of each blocks, then it would come back where you started.

    It's the later katas that I'm thinking of.

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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    For all of the katas (short form 1 through six), it's my understanding that if done correctly, all the katas start and stop in the same place.

    Tara says that in long form 3, it's one stance over in the Planas line.

    What is your all experience with that?
    Amylong, it is my understanding that all the forms, except Long 3, begin and end in the same location. I have some difficulty in making that work with the 2's. Form 4 works out pretty well for me, usually.

    In Long 3, at the Repeated Devistation, there is a 'front-to-back' switch foot maneuver (which is weird because the attackers is behind us, and because of this behind us is 'front'), from which we step out to Desperate Falcons, with our left foot where our right foot was ... which moves us one stance to the right from where we started.

    One of the other challenges in Long 3, is getting back to the starting line (many people often end up one stance to the right, and one stance behind where they started). As we execute Parting Wings, we are in a Neutral Bow stance, (front foot on the starting line, rear foot one stance depth behind the starting line). We then step back once with Glancing Spear to the the right. We step back twice with Glancing Spear to the left. ---- Add that up, and it is three stances back to the rear horse.

    At the end of the form, we complete Repeated Devistation in a horse ... from which we Step up once with Desperate Falcons to the right. We step up twice with Desperate Falcons to the left. This leaves us once stance dept back from where we started.

    When I last queried Mr. Planas about this ... he told me to make the stance depths backward short by rotating on your heel. He called it 'Slight of Foot' --- as in a magicians slight of hand. I can make it work if, my steps back are short, and my steps forward are exaggerated.

    Don't know 5 of 6 yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    What's your personal experience with doing the katas? Do they start and stop in the same place for you?
    The first 4 seem to me they end up generally the same spot. Short 3 I'm unsure of. Long 3 I got chastized on MT for saying it was 1 stance to the right but that's my answer and will stick to it. 4 seems to pretty much on the money. 5, well, I won't probably ever get it in the same spot. For me I always start 5 towards the back of hte room to generally end up quite forward. As far as 6, I haven't paid that much attention to it.

    I thought that I gave up this question when I left the TKD system which they same no matter what they begin and end in the same position.

    Back to my previous post. Put a piece of tape on the floor just wide enough for your feet in an attention stance, use the string, twine, rope, bungee, whathave you tied to your ankles. Try to land in the same spot WITHOUT moving towards that little piece of tape when your finished. You know, like jump towards it so you land on it.

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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    So I wasn't crazy afterall?!! Ha ha!! Yeah- I believe the stance is one off due to the way we do Repeated Devastation. The first side is done with your feet coming back together at the end. On the second side, we end back in a horse. I'm interested in knowing again why we do that though- why one side is feet together, the other back to a horse......I'll have to inquire (my instructor) when I get a chance. Anyone else do this? If so....what reasoning were you taught?
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    Keep in mind, that no 2 transitions are supposed to be the same. They all may look alike but generally there are subtle differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan
    Anyone else do this? If so....what reasoning were you taught?
    I don't know. Can you do repeated devestation from a horse stance or can you perform repeated devestation standing natural or feet closer together?

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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    I don't know. Can you do repeated devestation from a horse stance or can you perform repeated devestation standing natural or feet closer together?
    Either way- but it seems weird starting from a horse. Is this why you think we start at natural on the first side?
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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    Keep in mind, that no 2 transitions are supposed to be the same. They all may look alike but generally there are subtle differences.
    I've also heard that there are subtle differences in 5 on every second repeat tech.
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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan
    So I wasn't crazy afterall?!! Ha ha!! Yeah- I believe the stance is one off due to the way we do Repeated Devastation. The first side is done with your feet coming back together at the end. On the second side, we end back in a horse. I'm interested in knowing again why we do that though- why one side is feet together, the other back to a horse......I'll have to inquire (my instructor) when I get a chance. Anyone else do this? If so....what reasoning were you taught?
    The switch foot maneuver in Repeated Devastation matches the switch foot maneuver in Parting Wings.
    In Parting Wings, we do a Back to Front Switch foot maneuver facing 12 O'Clock (Right foot moves up and then Left Foot moves back) .

    In Repeated Devastation we do a Back to Front Switch foot maneuver facing 6 O'Clock (Left foot moves back and then Right Foot moves forward).
    Please note, in my earlier post, I got the name of the switch wrong ... which is what I get for posting in the middle of my work day.

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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward
    The switch foot maneuver in Repeated Devastation matches the switch foot maneuver in Parting Wings.
    Never noticed/analyzed that part before- thanks!!

    I'm speaking more of foot position at the END of the techs. When we go to the next ready position- why feet together on the end of the first side of Repeated Devastation and then horse stance for the end of the second side? That's how I was taught the kata and I've been asked why.....and I don't know/remember why!!
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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    For all of the katas (short form 1 through six), it's my understanding that if done correctly, all the katas start and stop in the same place.

    Tara says that in long form 3, it's one stance over in the Planas line.

    What is your all experience with that?


    --Amy
    Long form 3 is like that. It ends farther up than it begins. Not only should they end in the same place they started, if you step up in the begining you step up to end and visa versa.
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    Default Re: Katas - Starting and stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
    So I wasn't crazy afterall?!! Ha ha!!
    Just because you were right about something does not mean you are not crazy.

    Back to the original topic. I have seen several TKD forms that do not end where they start, the same with some weapons forms, and it is almost impossible to end Long 5 where you started unless you make slight modifications in some transitions.
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