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Thread: When do you "lose rank" ?

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    Default When do you "lose rank" ?

    A school near me (not mine) has a family tree of black belts on the wall. Under the tree it states that once a person stops actively training, then that person's rank is no longer recognized in the school.

    I was surprised to see this. How common is it?

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    sounds like a way to keep the flock close to home.

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Wow.

    I'm thinking not very. I've trained at difference schools and I've never had it be an issue. I went away for six years and when I came back, there was no question that I kept my rank.

    How odd.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    It sure struck me as bizarre.

    Under the Family Tree was that about actively training, plus a note that some names have been removed for dishonourable conduct.

    Me being a cynic, immediately thought that I didn't particularly want to be in a school that created black belts that lost rank for dishonourable conduct.

    I can understand that if a BB does something absolutely horrible with their skills, that the school would want to distance themselves from their student-turned-baddie.

    But to openly make a statement about how the BB could lose rank....that just seemed bizarre.

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Sounds like a marketing/loyalty issue. Once you have acquired the rank it is yours. That is totally absurd.
    "Change is not necessary...Survival is not mandatory" - W. Edward Deming

    "When I hit....I hit the whole enchilada" - Master David Leung

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    I don't think I'd like that either. It sounds pointless to point out that someone was dishonorable. If they were, remove their name.

    Unless it's sort of like a minor subtle threat to keep people in line.

    Or it's a way to tell people that they don't put up with nonsense.

    Either way, that doesn't sound right to me.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    The revocation of rank is a joke, and even if they do revoke someones rank they can never take away what the person has learned.

    LadyKaur the next time you drive buy the school look up to see if you see a pair of golden arches, or maybe their is a a drive through window along the side of the building. "Can I get a purple belt with a side of fries please"
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    "Can I get a purple belt with a side of fries please"
    Rob, you crack me up. lol

    --Amy
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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    The revocation of rank is a joke, and even if they do revoke someones rank they can never take away what the person has learned.

    LadyKaur the next time you drive buy the school look up to see if you see a pair of golden arches, or maybe their is a a drive through window along the side of the building. "Can I get a purple belt with a side of fries please"
    No golden arches, but the school has it's own "10th Degree" who the students refer to only as "Grandmaster". Same difference...

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    I agree with alot that's said here. If you've got the credentials, (unless it's a legal thing), it's hard to loose what you have. On top of that many may cross over to other organizations,(some are glad to take orphans to add to their org) or simply start their own.
    " Come with me, and I will complete your trainning."

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lady_kaur
    Under the Family Tree was that about actively training, plus a note that some names have been removed for dishonourable conduct.
    For some schools, this means going out on your own, going with another system, going into competition with them, or, worst of all, no longer paying your membership dues and school fees!

    Most orgs will remove a persons' association with them for gross miscondut. But to post their names publically does neither the person nor the organisation any good, though it might help some poor strugling lawyers' finances.

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Sounds petty. But then again, this person demands that people refer to him as "Grandmaster".
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Sounds like a cult to me.
    More Shugyo!

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    "The revocation of rank is a joke, and even if they do revoke someones rank they can never take away what the person has learned."
    I agree Rob and have seen this many times over the years from a very well known kenpo camp.

    One was a few years ago and they guy was a 7th degree black then the axe fell and everyone from that camp said he had no knowledge and his rank was no longer legit ... I guess the past 30 years of knowledge went away when the axe fell ... yeah right.

    Good idea to stay away from those who advertise that kind of stuff.

    You sure it wasnt a Take One's Dough school?
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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate
    You sure it wasnt a Take One's Dough school?
    Now that made me laugh.
    "Change is not necessary...Survival is not mandatory" - W. Edward Deming

    "When I hit....I hit the whole enchilada" - Master David Leung

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Takai
    Now that made me laugh.
    Around these parts, we call it like we see it.

    LOL!
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    It was a Kenpo school. I had bad vibes about it when I was looking for a place to train, and never even went through the door. Now that I have, it seems my gut instincts were well-founded.

    I didn't meet Grandmaster. That would have been interesting. Not sure how he would have instroduced himself to me, and if I would have been able to shake his hand without cracking up.

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    Default

    There's only a few instinces where one can lose rank. Choosing to leave under good terms is not one of them. I really haven't trained with my first martial arts instructor for a long time. Actually it's been since I started Kenpo. My reason for saying this is because if you call him he will tell you that I am still apart of the school. On his family tree, in photos, my certificates and what not.

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    I worked as a bouncer with a guy in the 1980's who had a bit of a coke problem. He belonged to the organization of a rather famous martial artist who had a prominent media stance against drug use by kids. After the first possession arrest and a warning by the org., the second arrest resulted in his disenfranchisement from the assn. I though that part was understandable. What I thought was NOT, was that the assn also revoked the membership and rank recognition of everyone in his lineage...including people who probably couldn't spell cocaine, much less ever used it.

    Another guy I bounced with was one of his blacks, and never touched the stuff. I immediately put together a certificate of recognition for him, and welcomed him into the folds of our meager association. No need to visit the wrath upon the children for the sins of the parents.

    Regards,

    Dave
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: When do you "lose rank" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house
    I worked as a bouncer with a guy in the 1980's who had a bit of a coke problem. He belonged to the organization of a rather famous martial artist who had a prominent media stance against drug use by kids. After the first possession arrest and a warning by the org., the second arrest resulted in his disenfranchisement from the assn. I though that part was understandable. What I thought was NOT, was that the assn also revoked the membership and rank recognition of everyone in his lineage...including people who probably couldn't spell cocaine, much less ever used it.

    Another guy I bounced with was one of his blacks, and never touched the stuff. I immediately put together a certificate of recognition for him, and welcomed him into the folds of our meager association. No need to visit the wrath upon the children for the sins of the parents.

    Regards,

    Dave
    That does seem to be quite a bit on the harsh side for his students. And IMO, totally unfair.
    "Change is not necessary...Survival is not mandatory" - W. Edward Deming

    "When I hit....I hit the whole enchilada" - Master David Leung

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