Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Tara and I have been discussing these two kicks.

    In kicking set one, one of the kicks is a side kick.

    In my kenpo world, a side thrust kick starts with the knee high up and to the side (like if you sat in something and were pulling your leg out of the way). This kick ends much like a rear-kick with the striking part being the heel. A very powerful kick.

    The other kick is a knife-edge kick. This kick is a snapping kick that is usually used for kicking the knee or throat, except for the slicing knife-edge in Twist of Fate.

    The knife-edge start with your foot pulled into your knee (like it's resting there) and the knife-edge shoots out and retracts.

    Some people call this a snapping side kick and a thrusting side kick, whereas I think the kicks are distinctly different and not even in the same category. (other than them both being kicks)

    Do you make a distinction between these kicks? And if so, how?

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dundalk Md
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    197
    Thanked 977 Times in 612 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    grrr... now you ahve me thinking about body mechanics...

    first.. no in my recent classes we have nto discussed the differance between the two other than application and foot position.

    but in the distant past I did learn that the thrusting kick starts at the chamber.. knee as high up into the chest as possible.. the heel driving out like a piston the ancored foot pivoting to allow for the hips to open and generate more torque and the kick drives through your opponent.

    knife edge kick.. primaraly used for knees where I am from as a side kick to the throat on a standing opponent is really really hard to pull off, aside from just being pretty and to say see how high I can kick? The knife edge kick feels more like a whip with the foot to me.. had to stand up and throw it a few times... ground foot does not seem to pivot to torque and yes the chamber for it only comes up as high as my other knee
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

  3. #3
    gixxershane's Avatar
    gixxershane is offline
    KenpoTalk
    2nd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Providence Plantation
    Posts
    777
    Thanks
    261
    Thanked 180 Times in 147 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    yes there is a diffrence.. we went over this in class lastnight.. we chamber them both the same..

    we just piviot our planted foot to have the heal face our opponent when doing the thrust kick.. with this kick you hitt with the heal just like a back kick

    the side blade kick is a snapping motion using the edge of your foot..

    thrusting side kick is used to displace or move your opponent away from you..

    snapping side blade kick is used as a set up, to put your opponent in a position for your next move..or can be used to step down your opponent (ex : like in leaping crane when you put them down on one knee)
    "The sacraed rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself, and can never be erased.""

    Alexander Hamilton
    The Farmer Refuted (1775)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    knife edge kick.. primaraly used for knees where I am from as a side kick to the throat on a standing opponent is really really hard to pull off, aside from just being pretty and to say see how high I can kick?
    I never said the opponent was standing. I'm assuming the opponent is on their back. I would never kick that high and leave myself open that way.

    It looks good in pictures though.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dundalk Md
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    197
    Thanked 977 Times in 612 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I never said the opponent was standing. I'm assuming the opponent is on their back. I would never kick that high and leave myself open that way.

    It looks good in pictures though.

    --Amy
    yes, it is very pretty in the movies...

    even on a grounded opponent I can't see a knife edge to the throat... then again I come from a standpoint of controle onteh ground so I would be more likely to drop a knee in a close kneel while manipulating a limb... or if I wanted to regress into my more punk past just curb stomp them.. but that lacks finess
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    yes, it is very pretty in the movies...

    even on a grounded opponent I can't see a knife edge to the throat... then again I come from a standpoint of controle onteh ground so I would be more likely to drop a knee in a close kneel while manipulating a limb... or if I wanted to regress into my more punk past just curb stomp them.. but that lacks finess
    Some of the Tatum extensions have some kicks to the throat. At that point, it's overkill because we're already destroyed them and they are controlled by their unconsciousness.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dundalk Md
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    197
    Thanked 977 Times in 612 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    Some of the Tatum extensions have some kicks to the throat. At that point, it's overkill because we're already destroyed them and they are controlled by their unconsciousness.

    --Amy
    ahh so at that point your just being mean...

    how rude...

    :P heheh

    Most of the knife edge kicks I have used are in intercepting the advancing knee or to collaps the leg by taking the inner thigh down to the inside knee. Such as evading the storm..

    .... (evading the storm is the second club technique?).... think it's evading... not enough coffee... stepping to 3 in 45 cat, right inside perry with left extended.. front snap to groin back side to knee backfist to temple...
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

  8. #8
    gixxershane's Avatar
    gixxershane is offline
    KenpoTalk
    2nd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Providence Plantation
    Posts
    777
    Thanks
    261
    Thanked 180 Times in 147 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    ahh so at that point your just being mean...

    how rude...

    :P heheh

    Most of the knife edge kicks I have used are in intercepting the advancing knee or to collaps the leg by taking the inner thigh down to the inside knee. Such as evading the storm..

    .... (evading the storm is the second club technique?).... think it's evading... not enough coffee... stepping to 3 in 45 cat, right inside perry with left extended.. front snap to groin back side to knee backfist to temple...
    sounds like checking the storm?
    "The sacraed rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself, and can never be erased.""

    Alexander Hamilton
    The Farmer Refuted (1775)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dundalk Md
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    197
    Thanked 977 Times in 612 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxershane
    sounds like checking the storm?
    yes checking... thats it..
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,818
    Thanks
    984
    Thanked 337 Times in 234 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    My learni'n, the side kick uses more the heel, where the knife edge kick uses more the side of the foot.

    Snap kicks are quick, in and out- more speed than power. Thrust kicks turn the heel of the supporting foot toward the target and get a lot more hip into it. You get more power and distance out of a thrust.

    Chambering depends on the target location- especially height.

    One good point about the side kick (as taught to me by a TKD sparing partner after he launched me across the room and into a cinder block wall); the side kick is the only kick that can be done with full power and extension from close contact range!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    My learni'n, the side kick uses more the heel, where the knife edge kick uses more the side of the foot.

    Snap kicks are quick, in and out- more speed than power. Thrust kicks turn the heel of the supporting foot toward the target and get a lot more hip into it. You get more power and distance out of a thrust.

    Chambering depends on the target location- especially height.

    One good point about the side kick (as taught to me by a TKD sparing partner after he launched me across the room and into a cinder block wall); the side kick is the only kick that can be done with full power and extension from close contact range!
    Okay. You and I seem to be on the same page with this. I'm just finding that there are a lot of people who don't use the term 'knife-edge kick' and call it a snapping side kick, which is confusing to me.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dundalk Md
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    197
    Thanked 977 Times in 612 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    Okay. You and I seem to be on the same page with this. I'm just finding that there are a lot of people who don't use the term 'knife-edge kick' and call it a snapping side kick, which is confusing to me.

    --Amy

    ohh guess I missed the question.. umm... thinking...

    .....

    ..... ..... .... now that I think about it.. neither.. they jsut say side kick .. but when sked to clarify heel or knife edge it is then said one or the other...


    I am sure that helps immensly... :P
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,818
    Thanks
    984
    Thanked 337 Times in 234 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    Okay. You and I seem to be on the same page with this. I'm just finding that there are a lot of people who don't use the term 'knife-edge kick' and call it a snapping side kick, which is confusing to me.
    --Amy
    Pretty much, except for this:

    a side thrust kick starts with the knee high up and to the side (like if you sat in something and were pulling your leg out of the way).
    For a low thrusting kick (knife edge or side kick), you would still chamber the foot at @ the knee, and a slicing knife edge might not need a seperate chamber. (edit: one example, deliver the kick almost like a sweep but target the achilles tendon if you get him turned or get behind him) However, from the high chamber you describe, I agree that you'd want to thrust kick.
    Last edited by thedan; 06-20-2006 at 02:40 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan


    For a low thrusting kick (knife edge or side kick), you would still chamber the foot at @ the knee, and a slicing knife edge might not need a separate chamber. (edit: one example, deliver the kick almost like a sweep but target the achilles tendon if you get him turned or get behind him) However, from the high chamber you describe, I agree that you'd want to thrust kick.
    I agree with the slicing knife edge. No major chambering needed. A low thrust kick wouldn't need the same chambering as a waist high one. I don't do much kicking above the waist, except maybe as a stopping kick when sparring. Then it's about gut level. No higher though.

    I think if we were in the same room, showing each other, we'd be in total agreement.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,818
    Thanks
    984
    Thanked 337 Times in 234 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I think if we were in the same room, showing each other, we'd be in total agreement.
    Probably so. It is difficult to write this stuff while thinking about it- your mind is focused on one aspect and the rest of the picture is forgotten. Still, best to clarify.

    Of course, I've never been guilty of..., well, uh, maybe...

  16. #16
    thesensei's Avatar
    thesensei is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Orange Belt
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Wagoner, OK
    Posts
    143
    Thanks
    41
    Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    I use the same terms, Amy. Knife-edge/Thrusting side kick. Knife-edge is a low kick, mostly to the knee. It does not feel right to the body to do that kick high, and I seem to recall a posting by Dr. Chape'l somewhere that indicated that doing a knife-edge kick any higher than that is very bad structurally - I agree. A thrusting side kick uses the heel of the foot as the weapon, and rolls the hip over - very closely related to a rear kick, and much better on the body if you're going higher, or looking for more power.

    Good question/discussion...

    Salute
    __________________
    JB

    "He who hesitates...meditates in the horizontal position!"
    - Mr. Edmund K. Parker Sr.

    You should follow me on twitter here.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by thesensei
    I use the same terms, Amy. Knife-edge/Thrusting side kick. Knife-edge is a low kick, mostly to the knee. It does not feel right to the body to do that kick high, and I seem to recall a posting by Dr. Chape'l somewhere that indicated that doing a knife-edge kick any higher than that is very bad structurally - I agree. A thrusting side kick uses the heel of the foot as the weapon, and rolls the hip over - very closely related to a rear kick, and much better on the body if you're going higher, or looking for more power.

    Good question/discussion...

    Salute
    I'm glad some others use the same terminology. I was beginning to think it was just me. I would never do the knife edge kick high either. I see advertisements for various karate schools and it always features someone doing a vertical sort of kick that looks beyond ineffective. Yes, they're limber, but I have no fear of limberness.

    Excellent.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dundalk Md
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    197
    Thanked 977 Times in 612 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I'm glad some others use the same terminology. I was beginning to think it was just me. I would never do the knife edge kick high either. I see advertisements for various karate schools and it always features someone doing a vertical sort of kick that looks beyond ineffective. Yes, they're limber, but I have no fear of limberness.

    Excellent.

    --Amy
    Amy.... you never know when you will have someone attacking you after climbing through a hole in the ceiling... hey.. it could happen... :P
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

  19. #19
    thesensei's Avatar
    thesensei is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Orange Belt
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Wagoner, OK
    Posts
    143
    Thanks
    41
    Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    Amy.... you never know when you will have someone attacking you after climbing through a hole in the ceiling... hey.. it could happen... :P
    Hehe...you never know...
    __________________
    JB

    "He who hesitates...meditates in the horizontal position!"
    - Mr. Edmund K. Parker Sr.

    You should follow me on twitter here.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Side Thrust vs. Knife-edge kick

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    Amy.... you never know when you will have someone attacking you after climbing through a hole in the ceiling... hey.. it could happen... :P
    You funny man. Yessss. Funny man.
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Long Form 7
    By Rob Broad in forum Ed Parker Kenpo
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2006, 03:44 PM
  2. Long Form 6
    By Rob Broad in forum Ed Parker Kenpo
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2006, 03:28 PM
  3. Long Form 5
    By Rob Broad in forum Ed Parker Kenpo
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2006, 03:14 PM
  4. Long Form 4
    By Rob Broad in forum Ed Parker Kenpo
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2006, 02:43 PM

Search tags for this page (caching method: table, memcache)

kenpo knife edge kick

,

knife edge kick

Click on a term to search our site for related topics.