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Thread: Basics. What the hell happened to them

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    Default Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Lately at tournaments and seminars I've seen that the fighters basics are getting seroiusly on the sloppy side.. For years it was confined mostly to the TKD people, lately however I've noticed a creep into the Karate and kenpo world.

    Wjhat gives? are we as studio owners afrais of forcing students threww the boring, and sometimes painfull process of Kihon Training? Are we substuting fun drills so as not to lose the limited attentionm spans??

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    Lately at tournaments and seminars I've seen that the fighters basics are getting seroiusly on the sloppy side...Wjhat gives?
    Most tournaments are point sparing these days, and the tendency there is to throw anything that scores. It only has to get in and hurt the air, after all. Same with blocks- easy to throw up an ineffective block and prevent the score when there's no intent behind the strike.

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    It's a decline in the standards I'd say. It's up to instructors, school owners, and organizations to make sure Kenpoist stand head and shoulders above the rest.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    Most tournaments are point sparing these days, and the tendency there is to throw anything that scores. It only has to get in and hurt the air, after all. Same with blocks- easy to throw up an ineffective block and prevent the score when there's no intent behind the strike.
    I've also seen the trend at semiars, even on some seminars that are taped and sold!

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    It's a decline in the standards I'd say. It's up to instructors, school owners, and organizations to make sure Kenpoist stand head and shoulders above the rest.
    Can you compete with the rapid promotions of the average TKD school with that philosophy??

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    Can you compete with the rapid promotions of the average TKD school with that philosophy??
    Let TKD have that market, you aren't going to beat McDonalds.
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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    I could not agree more, everytime I go home for the WKKA camp in October, I watch everyone test and work out. Everything is starting to get really sloppy. It is up to the school owner what to teach people. But if they are not teaching it themselves it is up to the instructor on how to teach it. If the instructor has sloppy basics than th students will too. Everything starts with basics.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    So where does it start? Do you want to be the guy droppingthat bombshell??
    How do you not punish the student fot tyhe teachers shortfall??

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    I couldn't agree more. I have also seen the basics slowly disintegrate. I do however understand that many instructors want to keep there students interested at the begginning. On the other hand, without the basics, a technique will not work as well, ultimatly causing a loss of interest.

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    So where does it start? Do you want to be the guy droppingthat bombshell??
    How do you not punish the student fot tyhe teachers shortfall??
    You should not punish the student for the teachers downfall. You chould help them back into doing things the right way. I can not say what to do ith the instructor because now these days many things include politics, which I am sad to say. If the school owner sees that the students are not doing things right than it is their job to step up to the plate and call for action.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

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    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    I can not say what to do ith the instructor because now these days many things include politics, which I am sad to say.
    This is SO true it isn't even funny. =/ Its hard to be an instructor when youre always having to watch your back.

    Ideally, when it comes to basics, I would have liked to have a class or two a month and work nothing but basics.

    But I had always gotten the feeling that if I did that, then we wouldn't have have gotten to teaching technique X and freestyle Y that week, which means little Tommy obviously didn't enough time to learn those techinques properly for his belt test and it would obviously be all my fault.

    Its like no matter what you do, you step on someone's toes. You breathe and someone is offended by it.

    When your school is over run with politics or is a slave to the almighty $$$, its time to get out.

    Sorry about mini-rant. But its sad to feel like your hands are tied as an instructor because your Head Instructor/School Owner wants to make sure everyone tests, because gods forbid a Karate Mom gets all upset about why their precious didn't pass. Instead, they'd rather take the spare time and have them play games instead of maybe going over stances.
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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    In today's instant gratification world, people want rank quicker than ever before, and with Mc Dojo's cheapen ranks even more each week basics are tossed aside. Mean while if people focused a little more on their basics and truly honed them they would find learning much easier.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Rant or no, you spoke a lot of truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyu
    Ideally, when it comes to basics, I would have liked to have a class or two a month and work nothing but basics. But I had always gotten the feeling that if I did that, then we wouldn't have have gotten to teaching technique X and freestyle Y that week, which means little Tommy obviously didn't enough time to learn those techinques properly for his belt test and it would obviously be all my fault. ... its sad to feel like your hands are tied as an instructor because your Head Instructor/School Owner wants to make sure everyone tests, because gods forbid a Karate Mom gets all upset about why their precious didn't pass.
    Personally, I prefer a phase carriculum over a belt system. When Johnny is ready, move him up- no tests.

    When your school is over run with politics or is a slave to the almighty $$$, its time to get out.
    Either that, or find a way to make it work. Some of the best schools out there are run out of someones garage (my experience, any way). "If you're not seriouse and willing to take the hits and do the work, don't show up." Not very profitable, but you could just do your own thing with a few like minded students. Or let the slackers keep the doors open with their checks, up to brown any how- or third phase if you go that route. But hold extra training for the seriouse students, by invitation only.

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    I'm probably going to get strung up for this (I've been biting my toungue for a while, but I have to get it out), but there is another reason I've seen for the deteriation of basics, and that is the UFC craze. I was seeing this before my hiatus, but in just a year and a half off it seems to be reaching epidemic proportions. And I see it in a few posts here. Many are trying to teach fighting like they see on TV, often without a good understanding of the principles involved. They are taking valuable class time for this and neglecting Kenpo. I just learned that an excellant school where I used to train went this route, and what they are teaching now is pure garbage!

    What does this say about Kenpo, when you have to teach this instead? And why the heck call it Kenpo if you are going to put your fists in front of your face and act like a bath tub toy?

    If you teach Kenpo, your students will learn Kenpo. If you teach garbage, they'll learn garbage. Kenpo can bob, weave, and dodge when it has to. It can yield and it can adapt. But it can't forget basic Kenpo principles and concepts, or it isn't Kenpo.

    There's my rant!

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    Can you compete with the rapid promotions of the average TKD school with that philosophy??
    I'm not in competition with any TKD school...only myself and my integrity and the integrity of the art. I have to look at myself in the mirror every day and live with what I see. If we get a student that just wants to buy a belt we hand them a Century catalouge and show them the door.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by lenatoi
    I couldn't agree more. I have also seen the basics slowly disintegrate. I do however understand that many instructors want to keep there students interested at the begginning. On the other hand, without the basics, a technique will not work as well, ultimatly causing a loss of interest.
    If one is an instructor in Kenpo then one should have creative skills. SGM Parker intended us all to be creative. That's why a thesis and a custum form is required for Black Belt. That's why tailoring is encouraged and why we have an equation formula. Kenpo is nothing but being creative. Any instructor worth their salt should be creative enough to make practicing the basics just as fun as any other aspect of the art.
    -IMHO =)
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    I'm probably going to get strung up for this (I've been biting my toungue for a while, but I have to get it out), but there is another reason I've seen for the deteriation of basics, and that is the UFC craze. I was seeing this before my hiatus, but in just a year and a half off it seems to be reaching epidemic proportions. And I see it in a few posts here. Many are trying to teach fighting like they see on TV, often without a good understanding of the principles involved. They are taking valuable class time for this and neglecting Kenpo. I just learned that an excellant school where I used to train went this route, and what they are teaching now is pure garbage!

    What does this say about Kenpo, when you have to teach this instead? And why the heck call it Kenpo if you are going to put your fists in front of your face and act like a bath tub toy?

    If you teach Kenpo, your students will learn Kenpo. If you teach garbage, they'll learn garbage. Kenpo can bob, weave, and dodge when it has to. It can yield and it can adapt. But it can't forget basic Kenpo principles and concepts, or it isn't Kenpo.

    There's my rant!
    What you see on TV is not fighting...it's a sport. If it were a fight you'd see 2 on 1, broken bottles, knives, biting, eye gouging, broken bones, and a lot more blood. I have a background in grappling and believe ground fighting is simply another range of fighting so I teach aspects of it, but not as much as I teach the student how not to be taken down in the first place. I don't think anyone's gonna string you up here...
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    What you see on TV is not fighting...it's a sport. ... I have a background in grappling and believe ground fighting is simply another range of fighting so I teach aspects of it, but not as much as I teach the student how not to be taken down in the first place.
    What you are teaching is good. What I'm talking about is those who teach the crouch, bob and weave as a striking art, at the expense of their Kenpo. If Mike Tyson can't fight like that without gloves, what makes a Kenpoist think he can? The purpose of the MMA type fighter (or sportsman) is to get in, clinch, throw, or take you down- not just to bounce around and trade punches. I know, that is what the public wants, and what makes the money. But it's not what makes a Kenpoist, in my (probably) soon to be elevated/swinging opinion.

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    I'm probably going to get strung up for this (I've been biting my toungue for a while, but I have to get it out), but there is another reason I've seen for the deteriation of basics, and that is the UFC craze. I was seeing this before my hiatus, but in just a year and a half off it seems to be reaching epidemic proportions. And I see it in a few posts here.
    You won't hear any disagreement from me. In my 25yrs of training, I have seen many Flavors Of The Month come and go, and UFC etc... is probably the most detrimental to positive learning environments everywhere.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Basics. What the hell happened to them

    Hard to say. I teach basics. My instructor teaches basics. My friend at Marin Kenpo teaches basics.

    The point fighting stuff is a whole different creature. I don't like point fighting. I like to spar. We go at each other until we're tired. I don't like the clash-break-clash-break thing.

    I'm a big fan of basics myself and I'm a pain in the ass to my students about it too.

    I don't see any point in complaining about others. They get what they get. I'd rather just teach what I know and believe to be effective and change the world one kenpoist at a time.

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