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Thread: Why Students Quit

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    Default Re: Self Defense: Why Most Adults Drop Out of Martial Arts Classes

    Actually I think its much simpler than this, I think that most people find out that martial arts involves work and they won't be the next Bruce Lee tomorrow, and they drop out.

    Lamont
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    Default Why Students Quit

    This is sparked from an article in the reference library. http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/showt...6082#post16082
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    I believe that is very true, among other things like frustration.

    Just for the heck of saying it, I am going through alot of frustration at the moment. The school I study at was originaly run by my first instructor. Well business things came up and he moved. After he moved two of his blackbelts took over and taught the class for about six months or so. Well they moved on and now we have two guys who do a wonderful job, but they are not AKKI reps. so we have people going to a school that is run by a rep. to make sure we are learning the right things. Well I just found out last night, if it is true I dont know, is that he hasent taught us the right things. He has taught us how to do them but has not gone into detail about it (but he has gone into alot of detail with me). Part of me says ok and part of me says no way that cant be right.
    so yeah, I just had to get that off of my mind.

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    Default Re: Self Defense: Why Most Adults Drop Out of Martial Arts Classes

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside
    Actually I think its much simpler than this, I think that most people find out that martial arts involves work and they won't be the next Bruce Lee tomorrow, and they drop out.

    Lamont
    Yup. That's also why McDojo's do so well. As long as they pay $150.00 a month they are assured a new "belt" every time they pay. Then, within 6-7 months or so they can claim to be "black belts" feeling better about themselves yet having made no real self improvement. It's fake, but they don't care because...well, they feel good. So.. why put in the years and years of hard work necessary to achieve the same "rank" with a "real" school when you can get the "abridged" version? LOL.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    So true, I had a guy at work the other day ask me if I would teach him some moves, so I said why don't you join Kenpo and see if you like it. He then said and very serious will I get my BB in 6 months because he heard of other guys who have, I told him to save his money and just go buy a BB at the store, because you'll get your butt kicked wearing it either way so you might as well have money in your pocket, LOL

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    Default Re: Self Defense: Why Most Adults Drop Out of Martial Arts Classes

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    Yup. That's also why McDojo's do so well. As long as they pay $150.00 a month they are assured a new "belt" every time they pay. Then, within 6-7 months or so they can claim to be "black belts" feeling better about themselves yet having made no real self improvement. It's fake, but they don't care because...well, they feel good. So.. why put in the years and years of hard work necessary to achieve the same "rank" with a "real" school when you can get the "abridged" version? LOL.
    We just had two potential new students come to our studio from a McDojo down the street. The McDojo school wanted them to sign a two year contract @ $150.00 (total 300.00) per month directly drawn from their bank account. It was also interesting that they only need to know three techniques per belt and one form. This was not an EPAK school but more of a Villari with numbered techs. I heard that they were putting out black belts pretty quickly, now I know why.

    Oh they only had 2 classes per week and if they wanted to spar they had to join the Elite club and pay more.
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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    $150.00 a month, wow

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    The 3 main reasons, in my opinion, why people quit:

    (1) lack of interest

    (2) they were rushed through the belts like candy just to get to black belt....once they get it, that's all they wanted. Interestingly, this reminds me of a few schools right here in London.

    (3) the school is very tough and the expectations are high....the student then says to him/herself, "this is WAY TOO MUCH WORK! Forget this!"
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    It's really hard to find a balance.

    I think a lot of students get bored. They do the same thing every class. The same warm up, the same drills, then then learn a technique (or keep reviewing the same 3 or 4) and then do short form 1 (regardless of their rank). This is boring. People will leave.

    If it's too easy, they don't feel like they are learning something and if it's too hard, they feel like they can't cut the mustard.

    My students right now are at yellow. I think I'm doing a pretty good job with them and they seem to be enjoying it, but I won't know until I get them to orange or purple and they're still here. This is my first solo class, so I don't know.

    I do know that we sweat, smile and learn something every class and that seems to be working.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    If you have instructors who aren't focused on the students, it will also turn folks away.

    If you have school owners more concerned about the almighty dollar, you will not only lose students, but instructors as well.

    If the guy in charge reminds you of a used car salesman when you meet him, chances are good you don't want to be there.

    If every step of the way youre encouraged to join the special clubs, or are required to buy certain items (especially if its something that it hardly gonna be used), it will also turn people away.

    Its like the hidden charges cell phone companies like to slide in under the guise of a bargain. You think youre only paying for that monthly fee, but next thing you know, youre spending much more. Money is tight these days.

    Im trying to think of what else would chase folks away. I know "karate mommies" who threaten to pull their kids cuz the don't like an instructor, but I think the question was aimed more toward adult students...I know a number of adults who just had life issues that forced them to quit.

    Ok, end my babbling.
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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    There are a lot of reasons people quit martial arts. Lack of interest, financial problems, scheduling problems, personality conflicts, etc...
    Not everyone quits because they don't want to work.

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    Quote Originally Posted by hongkongfooey
    There are a lot of reasons people quit martial arts. Lack of interest, financial problems, scheduling problems, personality conflicts, etc...
    Not everyone quits because they don't want to work.
    That is very true. I'd say finances are probably the 2nd most common cause. I would say, that due to the current 'values' of many in the U.S. anyway, the amount of effort required to progress in Kenpo is probably the number 1 reason.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    That is very true. I'd say finances are probably the 2nd most common cause. I would say, that due to the current 'values' of many in the U.S. anyway, the amount of effort required to progress in Kenpo is probably the number 1 reason.
    I guess it depends on the area where you live. Our school is in a lower income area, so we have a lot of people who quit because they can't afford it.

    And with so many schools around who will give out a black belt in a couple of years, why would they want to spend almost 3x as long to get a black belt from Kenpo?

    (Aside from the fact that it's cool too.)

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    In a business manual printed in the 80's Al Tracy wrote "90% of people quit in the first 90 days". That is just the nature of the martial arts. As people who have surpassed that 90 day mark and made training and studying as part of our lives we can not understand at times why people would quit.

    For adults there are many things that make them quit, not enough time, no instant validation, too much work, too little work, sometimes it is just not what they wanted. Adults have many things fighting for what little time they have.

    My advice for school owners is to keep lots of statistics in regards to your school and especially your new enrollments. Teach quality, and don't gouge your students, and you will be fine.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    Wanna know something really bizzare about our school?

    I've seen several students stick it out all the way to brown belt.... and then quit. Huh? That's right...I've even seen some preparing for black, being taught the material...and not come back. What? That's right. Go figure!?! Why in the world would you put forth all the effort, time, blood, sweat, tears.....to get so close...and then quit?!?!?! I don't get it? It's like getting all the way to third base and then on the way to home plate just walking off the field back to the dug out without scoring. What's up with that?!?!?!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    My friend, the one I joined kenpo to be better friends with, is one such person. She got to brown and then quit.

    She said the politics were getting to her or something. She had school and other things and just couldn't do all of it.

    I've left lots of times, but I've always come back.

    When I got pregnant, I thought I had left for good. My husband didn't like that I worked out with all men and it was was hard with a baby (then a second one), etc.

    But when my boy turned two, I just decided to go back. Six years off. I will never leave again. If I hadn't quit so many times over the years, I have to wonder where I'd be now. It took me 25 years to get my black belt. That's kind of obnoxious.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    It took me 25 years to get my black belt. That's kind of obnoxious.

    --Amy
    Now that's what I call a "jouney!" Just think where you'll be in another 25! By then you'll be able to fly, shoot fire balls out of your hands...all kinds of cool stuff! LMAO.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    In many good schools you will see numbers that sort of follow this type time line:

    Out of 100 people who join a school 50 - 70 make it to Yellow Belt if that first test is with in the first 3 months.

    Out of those that made it to Yellow Belt only 20% make it to Blue Belt. Out of those that made it to Blue Belt only 20% of them make it to 3rd brown.

    Afet that is is 50% all the way. Out of the people that make it to 3rd Brown 50% quit before getting to 2nd Brown, then 50% who make it to 2nd Brown quit before they make it to 1st brown. They there are the ones who really make us scratch our heads the ones who make it to 1st brown and quit just before Black Belt.

    If you have 100 students join expect 1or 2 to make it Black Belt.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    I've heard of a lot of brown belts that quit, you have to wonder why? Maybe because thats the longest time between ranks from brown to black, it doesn't make sense to me.

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    Default Re: Why Students Quit

    I've quit a few times.
    Politics, other life factors, burn out, and other factors. My first karate class consisted of spending 30 minutes on a leg stretcher that left it hard for me to walk, and having a medicine ball pounded into my chest for the other 30. It was my only class btw. It took another 10 years before I found a school I liked.
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