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Thread: Anatomical Positioning

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    Default Anatomical Positioning

    Some recent posts got me ta-thunkin' about this.

    Anatomical Positioning: The calculated striking, forcing, or controlling of vital targets which will force an opponentn into preconcieived postural positions, and make the next anticipated target readily accessible for a follow-up.

    Some compare Kenpo to Chess. To be successful at Chess one must stay 2 or more moves ahead of one's opponent. Kenpo techniques are designed so that you train to be moves ahead of your current actions. Take something simple like Thrusting Salute:

    DEFENSE: Right Thrust Kick

    STANCE: Left Neutral Bow
    1) Push drag reverse as you execute a left vertical outside downward block to opponent’s ankle.
    2) Execute a right thrust kick to opponent’s groin.
    3) Settle into a right neutral bow as you execute a right palm heel strike to opponent’s face.

    You know the palm heel will be effective because you know the opponents
    face will be coming down to meet it {borrowed force} because you know that
    is the natural reaction of someone being kicked in the groin. Or...do you think
    they might react differently? I think if there were solid research on this topic
    statistics would show that the majority of males will indeed "bend over" if
    struck in the groin. But that's just me.... what do you think?






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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    I deffintely agree, every technique we do munipulates the opponent for your next strike. THat is one of the best things about Kenpo, you are not just swinging your arms around and hoping you are going to hit something. You actually munipulate your opponent for each shot.

    The higher you hit somebody the more they will lean back, the opposite occurs when you hit them love. So I think either way the opponent will still bend over it just matters in which direction that they bend over. Because of those kinds of circumstances we also learn about fitting.
    Last edited by parkerkarate; 03-01-2006 at 08:13 PM.
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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    Anatomical Positioning: The calculated striking, forcing, or controlling of vital targets which will force an opponentn into preconcieived postural positions, and make the next anticipated target readily accessible for a follow-up.
    Some compare Kenpo to Chess. To be successful at Chess one must stay 2 or more moves ahead of one's opponent. Kenpo techniques are designed so that you train to be moves ahead of your current actions. Take something simple like Thrusting Salute: ...

    You know the palm heel will be effective because you know the opponents
    face will be coming down to meet it {borrowed force} because you know that
    is the natural reaction of someone being kicked in the groin. Or...do you think
    they might react differently? I think if there were solid research on this topic
    statistics would show that the majority of males will indeed "bend over" if
    struck in the groin. But that's just me.... what do you think?


    Well, I think that the guys I've seen kicked in the groin did not just bend over. They sort of squated, knees clinched, hands on crotch, back arched back but bent forward at the waist, head back and jaw droped as they said something like "ARGHUHNNN...!!!" That jaw drop is why the heel palm works soooo well.

    I also think that the technique, as all good techniques are, is designed to leave you in a good position to react from if things don't go as planned. You've created distance, so if the block (which is really only to force him to plant where you want) fails, you have time to react. If the kick to the groin doesn't land on target, you'll still have options. If he eats the pain (and it does happen, even with severe groin shots) you still have the distance you created and can continue the retraction of the kick to step through reverse, giving a little more distance and time. So yes, we are trained to work >2 steps ahead, but not to count on the plan working. Doo-doo occurs.

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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    Some recent posts got me ta-thunkin' about this.

    Anatomical Positioning: The calculated striking, forcing, or controlling of vital targets which will force an opponentn into preconcieived postural positions, and make the next anticipated target readily accessible for a follow-up.

    Some compare Kenpo to Chess. To be successful at Chess one must stay 2 or more moves ahead of one's opponent. Kenpo techniques are designed so that you train to be moves ahead of your current actions. Take something simple like Thrusting Salute:

    DEFENSE: Right Thrust Kick

    STANCE: Left Neutral Bow
    1) Push drag reverse as you execute a left vertical outside downward block to opponent’s ankle.
    2) Execute a right thrust kick to opponent’s groin.
    3) Settle into a right neutral bow as you execute a right palm heel strike to opponent’s face.

    You know the palm heel will be effective because you know the opponents
    face will be coming down to meet it {borrowed force} because you know that
    is the natural reaction of someone being kicked in the groin. Or...do you think
    they might react differently? I think if there were solid research on this topic
    statistics would show that the majority of males will indeed "bend over" if
    struck in the groin. But that's just me.... what do you think?





    I disagree. Male and females alike when struck significantly in the groin do not "bend over." the body reflexively collapses upon itself and 'squatting" action takes place with the chin moving upwards. The actual 'bending over,' (when it actually takes place) is a possible secondary but more likely third or fourth in reaction.

    Remember there is a great difference in human anatomy betwen 'bending over' and arriving at the 'bent over' position.
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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    Come to think of it... the many times that I've been tagged there, I can't recall what my exact reaction was other than LEGS TOGETHER and waddling away. I've seen a particular male sibling of mine, bring his legs together as he's leaning over and yes chin is up. All before falling to the ground maintainging the same position on his side. What? What? I didn't do it.
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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    Quote Originally Posted by cameypsaromatis
    Come to think of it... the many times that I've been tagged there, I can't recall what my exact reaction was other than LEGS TOGETHER and waddling away. I've seen a particular male sibling of mine, bring his legs together as he's leaning over and yes chin is up. All before falling to the ground maintainging the same position on his side. What? What? I didn't do it.
    Yup. Fella's do have a tendency to do that. (Speaking from personal experience too!)
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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    We spend a lot of time on body mechanics and cause and effect. We start with your kamai (posture) before your opponent even attacks. Then we effect balance, body rotation etc until the final strike or throw is delivered.

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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    Quote Originally Posted by gakusei
    We spend a lot of time on body mechanics and cause and effect. We start with your kamai (posture) before your opponent even attacks. Then we effect balance, body rotation etc until the final strike or throw is delivered.
    I would suggest that is a good thing.
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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    I deffintely agree, every technique we do munipulates the opponent for your next strike. THat is one of the best things about Kenpo, you are not just swinging your arms around and hoping you are going to hit something. You actually munipulate your opponent for each shot.
    Yes, but to do as you suggest requires significant 'specific' knowledge of HOW to execute, WHERE to execute, WHEN to execute, and the EXACT effects of your execution.
    The higher you hit somebody the more they will lean back, the opposite occurs when you hit them love.
    I presume you meant "low" not "love." but I disagree with that assertion.
    So I think either way the opponent will still bend over it just matters in which direction that they bend over.
    Ultimately, yes but people do not ''bend over' backwards, and we must acknowledge the WHEN of this action and what effects it may have and implications relative to our desired response.
    Because of those kinds of circumstances we also learn about fitting.
    There is a lot of information you bypassed to get to 'fitting." Something not nearly as important. "Fitting" is something Parker created to aid in "targeting" for motion based Kenpo. But let's get back to the above and this "bent, bending" scenario please.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    I don't believe there is currently any method of accurately predicting with any accuracy the exact reactions any one individual will have given a particular action. We can only train for possibilities.

    I do believe that there are certain 'truths' though, that we can use to build workable models for self defense. Sticking with the groin strike as the example, I think most would probably agree that when an attack is made to that area of the body that persons head has a tendency to come forward to some degree on most occasions. The rate in which this occurs is great enough for us to assume that by kicking a person in the groin it would be logical to follow up with a maneuver that takes advantage of the opponent's head coming forward. Therefore, in the technique Thrusting Salute, it is logical to follow the groin kick with a palm heel strike to the opponent's face.

    IMHO =)
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    From a post of mine on our sister forum:

    The "science" of working techniques is body positioning. It involves doing your best to position the attacker's body where you want. The "art" of techniques come when you have to change your game plan midstream, blending and borrowing as necessary. In a nutshell, it's recognizing "snapshots" of body positions and dealing with what you recognize as it happens.

    Rob, I look forward to meeting you on the 18th. Please don't hesistate to introduce yourself.

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    www.trianglekenpo.com

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    Default Re: Anatomical Positioning

    Looking forward to it!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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