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Thread: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

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    Athanasius is offline
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    Default Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    I am taking Tracy Kenpo and loving it. I noticed thought that we do not have 2 techniques that others tracy kenpo guys do. Its called Chinese sword and Japanese sword. We have neigther in the Tracy system I take. But it appears that other people do in the other tracy systems. Does anyone know why?

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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    I am taking Tracy Kenpo and loving it. I noticed thought that we do not have 2 techniques that others tracy kenpo guys do. Its called Chinese sword and Japanese sword. We have neigther in the Tracy system I take. But it appears that other people do in the other tracy systems. Does anyone know why?
    Ask your instructor. These techs are part of the yellow belt curriculum. If your instructor is teaching the entire curriculum, it should be there. But perhaps he is teaching a modified curriculum. He should have the answer.
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    Michael


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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    I agree, you'd have to ask your instructor for specifics.

    I believe the original intent was to put those two techniques into the beginning because those two moves (inward/outward block and then the inward/outward chop) are found in many other techniques, so it was a way to train beginners on the key movement. So, maybe your instructor just removed them as formal techniques since they are covered elsewhere.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    This makes sense now as we do not have yellow belts we go from white straight to orange. Thank you!

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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    This makes sense now as we do not have yellow belts we go from white straight to orange. Thank you!
    That is not uncommon. Yellow belt has ten techniques. When I first went through the system we also went straight to orange. Under a different instructor I learned the yellow. I don’t know the history of when and why yellow was added later. I do know that curriculum get modified from time for time.
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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    I believe the original cirriculum did not contain those two techniques and skipped yellow belt. If you have 40 techniques per belt, it's the original cirriculum and would be why they're absent.
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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    I agree, you'd have to ask your instructor for specifics.

    I believe the original intent was to put those two techniques into the beginning because those two moves (inward/outward block and then the inward/outward chop) are found in many other techniques, so it was a way to train beginners on the key movement. So, maybe your instructor just removed them as formal techniques since they are covered elsewhere.

    I dont know a thing about tracey kenpo but from that description it sounds like they're the techniques delayed sword and sword of destruction from parkers kenpo

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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by kenporider View Post
    I believe the original cirriculum did not contain those two techniques and skipped yellow belt. If you have 40 techniques per belt, it's the original cirriculum and would be why they're absent.
    The original 40-tech curriculum only had 40 Techs for orange through green. The brown belt levels each had 30, and then no additional techs beyond that.

    the revised 30 tech curriculum (I believe it was revised in the 1970s or 1980s, but I am not certain) has 30 each for orange through 4th black, and 5th Black has 38. This is the curriculum that I have learned beginning in 1984, yet my first time through did not include yellow belt. So I donít know when yellow was added. Also, I believe that very recently (within the last decade or so) additional techs have been added at 6th black.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    I dont know a thing about tracey kenpo but from that description it sounds like they're the techniques delayed sword and sword of destruction from parkers kenpo
    Tracy yellow belt also has Delayed Sword, although I do not known if it is the same as Delayed Sword in other lineages.
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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    I... sounds like they're the techniques delayed sword and sword of destruction from parkers kenpo
    No mention of kicks though.

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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    I dont know a thing about tracey kenpo but from that description it sounds like they're the techniques delayed sword and sword of destruction from parkers kenpo
    They would both be in the Parker system.

    Just some fun historical stuff, originally there were two techniques (Pre-Tracy Parker style) Sword in Return and Kick in Return (mid-60's). Both started with the right inward block, then sword in return used the chop and kick in return used, you guessed it, a kick after the block. These were later combined into "Retreating Warrior", which the sequence was block/chop/kick. Students were having a problem, so the chop and the kick were switched, the kick now "delaying the sword" and the sequence was block/kick/chop.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Delayed Sword exists in the Tracy system too. The equivalent of Sword of Destruction seems to be Japanese Sword, but minus the kick.

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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    They would both be in the Parker system.

    Just some fun historical stuff, originally there were two techniques (Pre-Tracy Parker style) Sword in Return and Kick in Return (mid-60's). Both started with the right inward block, then sword in return used the chop and kick in return used, you guessed it, a kick after the block. These were later combined into "Retreating Warrior", which the sequence was block/chop/kick. Students were having a problem, so the chop and the kick were switched, the kick now "delaying the sword" and the sequence was block/kick/chop.
    Yes, and the kick was a scoop kick on the way out originally.

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    Default Re: Question on Chinese and Japanese Sword

    Yellow belt was added in 1985. Chinese Sword and Japanese Sword use the inward block and outward block respectively, and many of the punch defenses you learn will build on these two.
    Dave

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