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Thread: Thoughts and salutations...

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    Default Thoughts and salutations...

    Thoughts and salutations... indeed...

    Not sure where it was but someone posted something that made me wonder..

    The Salute... the salutation.. What does it mean to you? What is in it? Is there anything in it? Is it simply a greeting an tradition or does it hold reference to the art/system/style/motion itself?

    Your thoughts?

    Bun bun....
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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    Default Re: Thoughts and salutations...

    The salute is the greeting, right?
    The salutation is sign language. I'm sure much of the mythology of the salutation is clever invention for the sake of ritual, but I would expect that some of it is also designed to communicate across language barriers. Especially when using signification of form in competition.

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    Default Re: Thoughts and salutations...

    The Ed Parker Kenpo Karate Salute and Salutation are a combination of the "old and the new.” Divided into two parts (Salute and Salutation), that are interchangeable depending on the circumstances in which you choose to use them. The first part of the greeting or “Salute” was preserved in recognition and respect to the traditions set forth by the Chinese. The concluding portion was added to tie in the heritage of the "old" with the logic of the "new" and innovative fighting science. There is a misconception this came from Mitose.

    The Salute honors the originators of the science, the Chinese.

    Before the establishment of what was called "Shaolin," an open left hand resting on a clenched right fist was used as a greeting salutation or salute just before the commencement of a set or form. There were several meanings to this gesture:


    1. Respect to the originator of the particular system, including all who had studied before him, with him, and presently study under him.

    2. Respect to those who would observe the movements.

    3. Respect to both scholars and warriors who were practitioners alike, since the left hand (open) of this salutation represented the scholar and the right hand (clenched), the man who actually executed the science.

    During the period of the Shaolin in the Ch'ing Dynasty, the meaning of the gesture changed when two additional movements were added. The change was that the left hand represented the sun, the right hand the moon. With this change,the combination of sun and moon represented the Chinese character Ming, thus meaning "revolutionary defenders for the cause of the Ming restoration." The two additional movements that were added to the sun and the moon were formed by placing the back of the hands together with both palms out. The fingers at this point were in a claw-like-fashion and raised to the chest and heart. This gesture meant, "We are against foreign invasion and our hearts are for China." The last movement was to clench both hands and draw them to the sides of the waist.This pulling gesture meant, "By pulling and working together we can take our country back."

    The Hungs, who were secret triad societies in China, perpetuated these movements. In short, the interpretation is;

    "Scholar and warrior united together, back to back, pulling together, to defend against the foreign invaders.”

    The execution of this can be seen in and is explained in the book, "Ed Parker's Secrets of Chinese Karate."

    The first part of the entire greeting or the “Salute” portion was preserved in recognition and respect to the traditions set forth by the Chinese.


    The Salute also has embedded within its execution self-defense movements as well, when it is executed with the correct basics.


    These movements have always existed in one form or another in the Chinese, and were not new. Although Mitose did come to use the hand gestures, they were usually used independent of each other, and not in the inclusive pattern of Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate.


    The second part of the greeting is the “Salutation” and interprets as an explanation of the original Kenpo Creed by Ed Parker that did NOT use the word "karate" out of respect to the originators, the Chinese. With the creation of the commercial vehicle Ed Parker’s kenpo Karate, the word “karate” was inserted for public recognition. When I first learned it, the word “karate” was not present. In Mr. Parker’s book “Kenpo Karate published by Iron Man Industries in 1961, you can find the creed with the word “karate” inserted with double hyphenations to show the interpretation but it was not to be recited. With expansion and commercialism it became a part of the “Kenpo Creed.” I personally have never used it and my students were taught the original version.

    I come to you with empty hands; (I am friendly and unarmed)

    I have no weapons. (Both hands are place together as they form the shape of a
    triangle.)


    But should I be forced to defend myself, my principles or my honor,
    (I now cover my weapon, my fist that is my treasure, for I do not wish to use it. Your left open hand is used to conceal your right clenched fist.)


    Should it be a matter of life or death or right or wrong, then here are my weapons, my empty hands.
    Now that I am being forced to use my weapon, to momentarily become an animal, I pray for forgiveness for what I may do. (Both hands are placed together as if praying.)


    The Salutation ends by outwardly circling the clawing hands and arms in an outward clawing movement coming to attention. (Warding away all evil in my presence and letting nothing deter me from my goal and moral convictions).


    The reasons for the Scholar/Warrior analogy are important. Within the Chinese Culture there was a very strong caste system in place. The truly educated were privileged and considered too "valuable" to fight in wars and conflict. Therefore it was the "warrior" who fought but who was directed by the "scholar" in the ways of Martial Science. That is, the warrior didn't always understand the methods of his fighting; all he knew was that it "worked." The scholars devised the methods and manner and the execution of the training and the implementation of the "fighting sciences," while the "warriors" went forth and performed as instructed.


    The combination of the "warrior and scholar" in a singular person was rare. Not because the scholar couldn't fight, (after all they had first hand knowledge,) but simply because the knowledge was so valuable, the chance could not be taken that they would be killed or injured in battle or conflict.

    So, it is today. The truly scholarly teacher directs his students in the methods that will cause them to be successful, however because it is a true science, the student may not always understand "why" things work, only that they do. Some students will come to understand more than others based on simple things as intellect and personal conviction. The scholar and warrior insure the co-existence of each other. The warrior would not exist without the directions of the scholar, and without the warrior to train; the scholar would have no purpose.





    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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    Default Re: Thoughts and salutations...

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    The Ed Parker Kenpo Karate Salute and Salutation are a combination of the "old and the new.” Divided into two parts (Salute and Salutation), that are interchangeable depending on the circumstances in which you choose to use them. The first part of the greeting or “Salute” was preserved in recognition and respect to the traditions set forth by the Chinese. The concluding portion was added to tie in the heritage of the "old" with.......






    You ever take a look at the form itself? Notice that when you are in your cat arms out open hand over fist.. the angle of the bend in the arm is the same angle as the rising block, outside block, inside block. etc.. but on a different plane?

    Ever notice the footwork dictates that the position of the hands are set when the base is settled.. much as should be when settling your base through all techniques?

    Next question.... do the techniques mirror the ideology o the salute or vise versa.. or simply both and thus both should be treated the same? ever try the salute against a right liner attack?

    ponderances....

    Bunbun
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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    KirkS (24 Minutes Ago)

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