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Thread: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

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    Default Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    More about knives.

    Thrusting Lance. I've learned it two ways: one with the person dropping the knife after the initial move and the other where you grab it out of their hand and use it to complete the move.

    The part that's funky to me is where you're supposed to change your grip on the knife mid-way.

    It seems to me that it would be unwise to try and spin your grip on a knife part way through a move.

    I think there's another technique that has that as well, but I can't think of what it is.

    What's your view on changing grip of a knife during a technique.

    Anyone? Mike?

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Start practicing the switching of yor grip, until it becomes second nature, and this technique will seem much easier.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    I guess I was really asking more if it seems normal and safe to change grip during any technique. I don't have much experience with knives, but it just doesn't seem like a good idea.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    [quote=amylong]The part that's funky to me is where you're supposed to change your grip on the knife mid-way.quote]

    I'm not quite sure I'm on the same page. At which part are you asking about changing the grip.

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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I guess I was really asking more if it seems normal and safe to change grip during any technique. I don't have much experience with knives, but it just doesn't seem like a good idea.

    --Amy
    Hi Amy, I know what you mean about that part in Thrusting Lance, that's the same way I was shown it initially. My take on it now is that if the knife is still there and you haven't disarmed the attacker, then it just shows different ways to "handle" the knife depending on which direction the blade is facing and available targets. (If the knife is gone then the hammer, backfist figure 8's could be used). Most likely I'd attempt to get rid of the knife all together. I'm sure Mr. Lambert has some interesting ideas on this technique.

    Donna

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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    While grip switching is often taught, it is probably unlikely to be actually done in the heat of the moment, unlikely and perhaps unwise. Adrenaline dumps inhibits fine motor activity, which grip switching in one hand certainly is. Whatever grip you've got it in, keep it there.

    Lamont
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside
    While grip switching is often taught, it is probably unlikely to be actually done in the heat of the moment, unlikely and perhaps unwise. Adrenaline dumps inhibits fine motor activity, which grip switching in one hand certainly is. Whatever grip you've got it in, keep it there.

    Lamont
    That was my thought. Once I had a hold of that knife, I can't imagine loosening it enough to switch holds.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I guess I was really asking more if it seems normal and safe to change grip during any technique. I don't have much experience with knives, but it just doesn't seem like a good idea.

    --Amy
    Perfectly normal, but it really all depends on 1) how good are you with a knife? do you have the practice time in to be proficient with a knife? 2) what do you want to do with the knife? what's your target and available angles of entry?
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Amy

    I usually teach this technique where the knife is gone from the opponents hand. The first move should break the arm, if not then the wrist lock will disarm him. After that the next two cuts will finish off the opponent. There is no need to slice the guys throat four times and then jam the blade into his chest as it is taught. A little bit of overkill even for me.
    You should however practice switching grips with your knives. There are times when it will come in handy.

    Mike

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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside
    While grip switching is often taught, it is probably unlikely to be actually done in the heat of the moment, unlikely and perhaps unwise. Adrenaline dumps inhibits fine motor activity, which grip switching in one hand certainly is. Whatever grip you've got it in, keep it there.
    I agree. But learning dexterity with a knife is a good thing as things happen. I don't think I'd switch on purpose, but if it gets loose a litle manipulative skill might save the day.

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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by MLKKA
    Amy,

    I usually teach this technique where the knife is gone from the opponents hand. The first move should break the arm, if not then the wrist lock will disarm him. After that the next two cuts will finish off the opponent. There is no need to slice the guys throat four times and then jam the blade into his chest as it is taught. A little bit of overkill even for me.
    You should however practice switching grips with your knives. There are times when it will come in handy.

    Mike
    Thanks Mike.

    I had assumed the person would drop the knife after the wrist lock. The first downward strike will break the arm? You hit a lot harder than I do then.

    I didn't know overkill was in your vocabulary. Yeah, I questioned all those cuts when I first learned them. I was told it was just to teach how to move with a knife. If you can slice the carotid artery, it seems that ought to do it.

    I'll start practicing with my knife.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Slice the carotid after you take away his knife? Lets just rename this the "send me to prison" technique.

    Lamont
    Pekiti Tirsia Kali and Kenpo Karate
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by MLKKA
    Amy

    A little bit of overkill even for me.

    Mike
    What? Is this the same Mike Lambert, LOL?
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside
    Slice the carotid after you take away his knife? Lets just rename this the "send me to prison" technique.

    Lamont
    I guess it depends on the threat. Even if I got the knife from someone, the threat wouldn't necessarily be eliminated.

    Besides, that's what we were talking about. The whole overkill thing. That's the thing with most/all of the knife techniques -- they seem to involve slicing the bad guy to death.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    Besides, that's what we were talking about. The whole overkill thing. That's the thing with most/all of the knife techniques -- they seem to involve slicing the bad guy to death.--Amy
    Hmm, thats interesting, most of the Tracy knife defenses are simply disarms or controls, I've played with most of the EPAK knife stuff by working with different EPAK guys, but we must never have gotten to part where you use it on the attacker, is that the extension?

    Lamont
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan
    I agree. But learning dexterity with a knife is a good thing as things happen. I don't think I'd switch on purpose, but if it gets loose a litle manipulative skill might save the day.
    Oh, absolutely, I carry a training knife in my car so I can practice grip switching and other dexterity drills while I'm driving, but that is a "just in case" training, I wouldn't try to hardwire a tech with a grip change.

    Lamont
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside
    Hmm, thats interesting, most of the Tracy knife defenses are simply disarms or controls, I've played with most of the EPAK knife stuff by working with different EPAK guys, but we must never have gotten to part where you use it on the attacker, is that the extension?

    Lamont
    Nope. That's just the technique. Some of it is 'in case he doesnt drop the knife'.

    Theoretically, the first strike will get them to drop the knife, but what if it doesn't? Then what?

    I think Raining Lance is overkill. You drive the knife into their leg, then after squeezing their windpipe a couple of times, you pull the knife out of their thigh, plunge it into their chest, pull it out and slice them across the neck.

    After the knife is in their thigh, they aren't going to be much of a problem to you --I would guess. Maybe I'm wrong. In the movies people still fight like crazy with a knife in their chest, so who knows?

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    The switch is to keep the knife in the lead. Think of the switch as momentarily holding the knife with both hands. Its not a big deal unless you want to lead with the unarmed hand I suppose... but why?
    Sean

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    Default Re: Changing Knife Grip during a technique - Thrusting Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger
    The switch is to keep the knife in the lead. Think of the switch as momentarily holding the knife with both hands. Its not a big deal unless you want to lead with the unarmed hand I suppose... but why?
    Sean
    Not switch hands. Switch the hold on the knife. Like from overhand to underhand.

    Yes, I can't see being very threatening with the empty hand. Who takes a swordhand to a knife fight?

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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