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Thread: James Mitose Kata

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    Default James Mitose Kata

    Hello everyone ! I have read that Mr. Mitose did not teach many forms and the only forms he did was Nahanchi 1-2 and two other named The Old Man kata and The Bear Kata. Is there anyone in the forum that knows these kata? Were these kata passed down to Mr. Chow and then to Mr. Parker?
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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpobob71 View Post
    Hello everyone ! I have read that Mr. Mitose did not teach many forms and the only forms he did was Nahanchi 1-2 and two other named The Old Man kata and The Bear Kata. Is there anyone in the forum that knows these kata? Were these kata passed down to Mr. Chow and then to Mr. Parker?
    No.
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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    I think there was a video of a form called decending the mountain or something like that...never heard of the other two forms you mentioned
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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpobob71 View Post
    Hello everyone ! I have read that Mr. Mitose did not teach many forms and the only forms he did was Nahanchi 1-2 and two other named The Old Man kata and The Bear Kata. Is there anyone in the forum that knows these kata? Were these kata passed down to Mr. Chow and then to Mr. Parker?

    I have heard that Prof. Chow did learn the Naihanchi kata, but did not teach them really. The only reference to the Old Man/Bear kata has been through the Tracy's, I have not seen/heard a Kosho-Ryu person reference those katas.

    As far as Prof. Chow and katas. It seems that it depends on when you studied with him. From my understanding, during the time that SGM Parker studied with him, Prof. Chow did NOT teach kata. But, at some point later he did at least demo them.

    Here is a video of Prof. Chow performing a kata for a demo.


    Also, from what I have read it seems that Prof. Chow did add kata to what he did to make it more of a style later on. I know that the katas in Kara-Ho Kenpo were created by both GM Kuoaha and Prof. Chow together with Prof. Chow giving final approval of what it would be like.

    But, to answer your question. No, Prof. Chow did NOT pass down any kata to SGM Parker.
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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    I have heard that Prof. Chow did learn the Naihanchi kata, but did not teach them really. The only reference to the Old Man/Bear kata has been through the Tracy's, I have not seen/heard a Kosho-Ryu person reference those katas.

    As far as Prof. Chow and katas. It seems that it depends on when you studied with him. From my understanding, during the time that SGM Parker studied with him, Prof. Chow did NOT teach kata. But, at some point later he did at least demo them.

    Here is a video of Prof. Chow performing a kata for a demo.


    Also, from what I have read it seems that Prof. Chow did add kata to what he did to make it more of a style later on. I know that the katas in Kara-Ho Kenpo were created by both GM Kuoaha and Prof. Chow together with Prof. Chow giving final approval of what it would be like.

    But, to answer your question. No, Prof. Chow did NOT pass down any kata to SGM Parker.
    All correct sir.
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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    it is ironic that japanese karate used to be taught through ONLY kata, and in hawaii, they used NO kata...lol
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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    I think, but I am not sure, that Bill Hensel knows these forms. And possibly Brian Baxter. Not sure if either are active or even lurkers here.


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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpobob71 View Post
    Hello everyone ! I have read that Mr. Mitose did not teach many forms and the only forms he did was Nahanchi 1-2 and two other named The Old Man kata and The Bear Kata. Is there anyone in the forum that knows these kata? Were these kata passed down to Mr. Chow and then to Mr. Parker?
    The Nahanchi kata is the three Tekki forms in Shotokan (look them up on YouTube Tekki Sho Dan, Tekki Ni Dan, Tekki San Dan, I think they used to be one form called Nahanchi but Funakoshi, founder of the Shotokan broke it down to three. (however I have seen Nahanchi referred to as Nahanchi sho dan which implies that it may have been three forms from the start.) The person who made Nahanchi famous was Choki Motobu as that was his bread and butter form. It is my opinion that Mr. Mitose was rumored to know Nahanchi because of his plagiarism of early Karate books and insinuations that Choki Motobu was his teacher. I suspect that Mitose was a con-artist and pathological liar who found and talked skilled Martial Artists into teaching with him while making himself seem like the Big Kahuna riding on the success of their skills. I base this off the interviews that were done with Prof. Chow, he makes some pretty harsh statements about Mitose's skill level and they are echoed by Mr. Parker. In fact the only people that seem to have anything positive to say about Mitose's skill level are people that had very little training time with him.

    If we really want to go down that rabbit whole I will say that I am more prone to believe Nimr Hassan's story that Mitose may have been versed in Ninjutsu of the Koka line, I say that because Ninjutsu does not have a real collection of fighting techniques (armed and unarmed) which would explain Mitose's rumored lack of skill, however Ninjutsu does consist of many techniques of smooth-talking manipulation, spying and escape that Mitose does seem to have used throughout his life.

    It is my opinion (until proven otherwise) No legit traditional form exists called the Bear Kata, however Motobu is rumored to have developed a White Bear Kata and some folks who think they do Okinawan Te do a Kuma Kata but looking at it, it is obviously recently made up and worthless.

    As for the old man kata... this goes back to Nahanchi again, if I recall correctly one of the crane systems, when Matsumura (bushi) went to Fukien China and brought back Naihanchi, he passed it down and when it got to either his son or grandson I forget which that person had the nick name old man Nabe. So if someone says they do the old man kata the only historic or classical kata that I can think of associated with that would be Nahanchi again (maybe an older version of it). That is about the best guess I can muster.
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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    The last thing I'd want to do (or at least one of the last) would be to disrespect Prof. Chow,but the form he demonstrated was pretty rudimentary and not done very well. Not a problem in my book, because as noted, he was known for his asskicking prowess, not his kata presentation.
    The early kenpo/kempo in Hawaii (and much of it still remains so) was pretty basic, not well understood or executed shorin ryu karate. In the hands of some of the early semi-legendary men, this was fine, since they were mostly badasses anyway.
    My comments are my own opinion and not meant to belittle anybody.
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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    I do not think Prof. Chow was doing any actual form in that clip More like stringing some things together for the crowd.
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    Default Re: James Mitose Kata

    I think you're right.
    "Everything matters and everything depends upon something else." --Doc

    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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