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Thread: School Fees

  1. #1
    jmugg Guest

    Default School Fees

    Why don't Martial Arts schools post their fees on their Websites, Not all but most dont.

  2. #2
    Bob Hubbard's Avatar
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    Default Re: School Fees

    Competition.

    Too often, the newbie martial artist is price shopping. They see $89/month at 1 site, and $49/month at another and think the $49 is cheeper. This as you know isn't always true. The $49 may get you 1 class per week, with testing fees, belt fees, certificate fees, mat fees, etc. while the $89 may allow you upto 7 classes a week, and include everything.

    By not including the price, the idea is to get the person to contact the school owner, who can then take the time to "sell" as well as "explain" and answer questions.

    We tried an experiment once where we removed pricing from a web site for 6 months. During that time period, the owner received many more inquiries than when he had them listed. I advise my clients to describe their programs benefits and features in detail, but add a "call for current prices" statement. This doubles your chance of turning a lead into a prospect into a client.
    For ANY and ALL KenpoTalk issues, please use theContact Us link here or at page bottom right. Do NOT PM me for site support.

  3. #3
    jmugg Guest

    Default Re: School Fees

    I realize there is a delicate balance between the need for the school owner to make some money and maintaining the integrity of the art. But my opinion is that too many school owners sell by pushy salesmanship rather than letting the student decide for himself. Too often that leads to apathetic students who aren't ewally committed to learning anything but are more interested in advancing. these students often quit after a couple of weeks thus starting the process all over again.


    Alas it's not a perfect world

    Thanks Kaith.

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    Default Re: School Fees

    Most schools hold back on fees to try to "hook" you into coming on down in in-person. It is a very old standard sales tactic.

    In the meantime, there are a few of us who do post them.

    -Michael
    Kenpo-Texas.com

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    Default Re: School Fees

    It is a very old tactic. The idea is that you are more likely to buy when you already feel invested in something. You have already taken the time to get ready and go to the school so you feel more like you have already invested something and that it would feel like a waste to just walk away. It's a pretty sleazy tactic.
    1st degree Black Belt in Kajukenbo (Original Method) under Prof. John Bishop
    Bishop's Kajukenbo Academy, Diamond Bar, CA

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    Default Re: School Fees

    I run a small school, and charge $50.00/ month for 2 one hour classes a weekfor ages 12 and under, and 2 90 minute classes a week for adults. College students who are out on their own have a special rate of $30 a month.

    I rarlely give my prices over the phone, but invite the person down to try a free class or two, at the end of the first class I give them a price sheet, and guideline to the school. There is nothing sleazy about wanting the person to come in a talk face to face about the program, this gives them a feel for the school, and instructor, instead of it being a cold meeting over the phone.

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    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    I rarlely give my prices over the phone, but invite the person down to try a free class or two, at the end of the first class I give them a price sheet, and guideline to the school. There is nothing sleazy about wanting the person to come in a talk face to face about the program, this gives them a feel for the school, and instructor, instead of it being a cold meeting over the phone.
    Do you ever run into problems of giving a free class or two and the person is very disrupted?

    At a previous studio I used to belong too this happened. The instructor allowed a potential student the opportunity to practice to get a feel for the style. The potential student then became very opionated and a know-it-all. It actually made some of the newer students shy away from that particular time frame all together in fear that the student may become permanent.

    Just curious.

  8. #8
    jmugg Guest

    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    I run a small school, and charge $50.00/ month for 2 one hour classes a weekfor ages 12 and under, and 2 90 minute classes a week for adults. College students who are out on their own have a special rate of $30 a month.

    I rarlely give my prices over the phone, but invite the person down to try a free class or two, at the end of the first class I give them a price sheet, and guideline to the school. There is nothing sleazy about wanting the person to come in a talk face to face about the program, this gives them a feel for the school, and instructor, instead of it being a cold meeting over the phone.
    Are you saying that if someone calle dyou on the phone asking about prices that you would definitely not give a price? Are you completely opposed to it?

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    Billy Lear is offline
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    Default Re: School Fees

    In my expereince, most decent places have their prices posted in a flyer or on their web site. The value of something is often measured in how much it is worth these days. Furthermore, it just seems like an honest proposal to prospective students.

    I also think it's important to remember that the sale has already been made when someone is looking into your studio or school. People have a tendency to put their money where their heart is. I know that when I want something for myself I concearn myself with how I can afford it, rather than if I can afford it.

    Aren't we glad it ain't like in the good 'ol days? Here's an excerpt from Mr. Parker's SECRETS OF CHINESE KARATE. (After thinking about this I'm glad that all I have to do is pay my monthly dues and testing fees!)





    If a prospective student desires to learn the art, he first seeks a master who is famous for a certain specialty or style. Generally, the master sought after lives in an area where ample training space is available.

    With a particular master in mind, the prospective student proceeds to visit the master in the hope of being introduced by one of the master’s disciples who has already observed the prospect’s character to a degree.

    The prospect is asked to appear at the master’s quarters on a designated day, generally before sunrise. Upon his arrival he discovers other members who also seek training under the same master. Together they wait outside of the master’s gate for an indefinite period.

    While they are waiting outside of the gate, many tests are rendered by the master’s disciples. The prospects often have water or dirt thrown on them, which appears to have been done unintentionally. Excuses are made such as the master is busy or that due to a ceremony, an audience is not wanted. If any of the prospects flare up with anger, they are automatically dismissed. The master is then informed of their dismissal.

    Often the prospective students wait for days and even weeks before being asked into the courtyard. Here they are further observed and tested for their patience. Will they fight with each other or talk or show signs of nervousness? All of these aspects are considered by watchful eyes. When the master appears, they are asked to kneel. The master is usually seen but rushes about very quickly. If any of the prospective students rushes toward him, they are asked to leave, since they have no respect for their elders and show no courtesy.

    As the days continue, the prospective students are further discouraged when they are asked what they are doing there and why don’t they return to their homes? If this does not discourage them, they are asked to do menial tasks such as fetching water and scrubbing the hallways floors. Just prior to the completion of their work some of the accepted students deliberately walk through the hallway with muddy shoes. Or the prospective students are condemned for not cleaning other areas that were not really designated. Again if they flare up in anger or talk back, they are promptly dismissed.

    After these tests re passed, they are then asked to do odds and ends – more dirty work. At the completion of these chores they are asked to eat breakfast with everyone. This is a special occasion that takes place outdoors. They are all lined up and each prospective student is given a little piece of cake or cracker. However, they are not told when to eat it, what it is for or what they are to do with it. Some tire of waiting and eat their cracker. They are then given a bowl without a bottom. Some question the bottomless bowl, while others are content to wait. Soon after, they are served rice soup. Those who audibly question how to eat the soup are immediately dismissed. These students are considered unintelligent and unresourceful. Such persons could not be trusted.

    What they should have done was to be patient and not eat their cake or cracker. Instead they should have placed their cracker at the bottom of the bowl then poured the rice soup over it. After the soup was consumed, the cake or cracker should then have been eaten.

    Those who passed the breakfast test were then asked to work in the kitchen, they are also asked to kill a white rabbit and serve it to the students. If the prospective students refuse to do this or ask to have themselves beaten over the head instead of the rabbit, they are then retained. The reason for this is that in China a white rabbit is considered one of the most revered animals and many people do not eat them. According to tradition, King Wun’s son was executed and served to the King. When he was told that he was eating the flesh of his own son he vomited what he had eaten. The food he vomited then took the form of a white rabbit and ran into the woods. Therefore because of this superstition, many people in China do not eat white rabbit.

    The remaining prospective students are further tested for their honesty. This is accomplished by giving them various types of beads or mementoes. A little later they are asked to return them. Upon their return, they are deliberately accused of not returning the same number as they were originally given. They are judged according to the answers given.

    Another test for honesty is to give these students a sum of money. When they are asked to return the money, they are given a portion of it back and are told that the sum returned was in excess of the amount originally given. If the students accept this returned sum, they are dismissed since the money returned was the correct amount.

    The surviving few are then given an endurance test. This is done by teaching the students the riding horse stance. After this stance is taught, they are instructed to practice it during the hottest part of the day. They are asked to stand in this rigid position without talking. A stick of incense, which has been measured to last a definite length of time, is lighted and placed before them. Not until the incense completely burns itself out are they allowed to get out of this stance. If they cannot remain in the stance, it is surmised that they are not sincere because their heart and soul are not in it.

    Whoever remains is asked into the chamber and is given a formal audience with the master. This is the first opportunity they have had to actually see the master as close range. Now that they see the master, they are asked to drink a cup of tea and become a full-fledged student. Yet even up to this final stage, they can still be dismissed if proper courtesy and etiquette is not shown. Each pupil is given a cup of tea by the master himself. If any of the pupils drink it, they are asked to leave and are told that if the master is now reduced to a serve them why should thy stay and learn what he has to offer. Allowing the master to serve them implies that they know more than the master. The proper manner of coping with this situation should have been to take the tea, walk toward the altar of the ancestors and pour the tea in three smooth strikes, saying “I honor the ancestors and the master that is before me and masters who I do not know but who have contributed to all mankind.” This would have been the proper ritualistic and accepted manner. They then should take their cup and again fill it saying, “Having honored the masters before my time, I now honor the present master which I hope I am worthy to serve.” The master drinks the cup of tea and officially makes the surviving few full-fledged pupils.

  10. #10
    jmugg Guest

    Default Re: School Fees

    Well that certainly puts it into perspective

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    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by asangria
    Do you ever run into problems of giving a free class or two and the person is very disrupted?

    At a previous studio I used to belong too this happened. The instructor allowed a potential student the opportunity to practice to get a feel for the style. The potential student then became very opionated and a know-it-all. It actually made some of the newer students shy away from that particular time frame all together in fear that the student may become permanent.

    Just curious.
    I have had a disruptive prospect a time or two, but very seldomly in the few instances it has happened I have asked to people to respect everyone else in the place or they can leave. When we have a person coming in for a free class they are paired off with a student that is Blue belt or above and start learning Star Block Set.

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    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by jmugg
    Are you saying that if someone calle dyou on the phone asking about prices that you would definitely not give a price? Are you completely opposed to it?
    I said, rarely do I like to give the price over the phone. I have done it in the past, but people usually take it out of context since they have no point of reference. Since most beginners don't know the difference between TKD, Shotokan, or Kenpo or any other style.

    What bothers me the most is the parents who think $30 - $50 each month is a lot of money but then turn around and spend $1500 for a child's hockey season and then $1000 - $2000 for new equipment for the child.

  13. #13
    jmugg Guest

    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    I said, rarely do I like to give the price over the phone. I have done it in the past, but people usually take it out of context since they have no point of reference. Since most beginners don't know the difference between TKD, Shotokan, or Kenpo or any other style.

    What bothers me the most is the parents who think $30 - $50 each month is a lot of money but then turn around and spend $1500 for a child's hockey season and then $1000 - $2000 for new equipment for the child.
    thanks for clarifying..

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    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by jmugg
    Why don't Martial Arts schools post their fees on their Websites, Not all but most dont.
    "What if" different students pay different amounts??

    IMHO- A serious student should always inquire in person, out of respect for the school and instructor(s).

    Gi - about $50.00
    Belt Test Fee - between $20.00 - $150.00
    Nominal monthly fee - about $85.00
    Travel - about $70.00 per month (gas)
    Hospital visits - Insurance co-pay $25.00 each time
    Learning an Art that can save your life - PRICELESS

    What's your life worth???
    What have I learned from this???

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    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Lear
    In my expereince, most decent places have their prices posted in a flyer or on their web site. The value of something is often measured in how much it is worth these days.
    Hey Billy-
    I think that it's good to not publicize the price for classes...etc. Maybe Kaith has a good point, it's about competition. Maybe, in part. But also I think that this trend that you speak of, the price indicating the value... though that IS how our society functions, I think it's unfortunate. I've paid lots of money for mediocre instruction and I've been given some of my best, most valuable, instruction for Free (or at least, for NO money....loyalty and hard work were my dues, and I'm still paying).

    Besides, you mention
    Furthermore, it just seems like an honest proposal to prospective students.
    I understand where you are coming from, but I'd like that consideration to come well AFTER I've gotten face time with that prospective student. I'd like them to see the school, meet one or two upper-belts, watched a class, read any on-site pamphlets and had other questions answered. Money IS a consideration, but I don't think it should be FIRST.
    See what I'm saying?

    Your Brother
    John

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    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo-Sloth[size=4

    Learning an Art that can save your life - PRICELESS

    What's your life worth???
    [/size]
    Right on!

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

  17. #17
    The Kai's Avatar
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    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    Right on!

    Jamie Seabrook
    www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
    It can also change, better (or worsen) your life. Make friends, keep your body and mind sharp. A reason to sweat, and can be fun, scary, exillerating (sp?) and dull

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    Default Re: School Fees

    Putting the fees on the website is OK so long as you can have it updated immediately if there is a change to the pricing structure. Many websites don't seem to change for years at a time.The last thing you need is out of date prices that you have to honour.

    I don't have my fees on the website, but they are up on the notice board at the class. I also include it in the handouts that each 'newbie' is given at the end of the first class.

    I always give prospective new students a month free, and I tell them that at the end of that period they may be invited to sign up.

    Les
    I'm only here to learn

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    Empty Hand is offline
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    Default Re: School Fees

    Hey all,

    I believe that learning something that can save your live is priceless. Now with that in mind I also believe that human life is priceless. What I have to keep in mind is how much of a desire do I have to teach someone the skills to that could possibly save their life one day?

    I think the true question is not how much is a persons life worth to them, but how much is a persons life worth to me? Now I am not saying that there should not be a charge because a person should be paid for their time. There are a lot more people out there who can't afford to pay 85.00 per month than there are who can. So I believe in setting a fee that most people can afford no matter what their station in life is.

    I also don't believe that there should be exsesive charges for rank testing other than to pay for what the belt itself cost and any other item that may come with it. Because they are already paying a monthly fee anyway

    I have always believed like this..... If in my life time I can save at least one life.... then I have done my job. To me that is worth more than any amount of money.

    I hope I didn't offend anyone.

    Empty Hand

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    Default Re: School Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty Hand
    I think the true question is not how much is a persons life worth to them, but how much is a persons life worth to me? Now I am not saying that there should not be a charge because a person should be paid for their time.

    So I believe in setting a fee that most people can afford no matter what their station in life is.
    E.H. -
    That's a very honorable outlook you've got there I think. It's good that you seem to feel it's part of your mission to pass on what you know NOT just so that you 'have a school' or make some money while "doing your thing", but you actually acknowledge the good effect (one of the many, I might add) that your sharing your art can have on those you share it with!!

    Kudos Bro!!!

    Your Brother
    John

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