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Thread: Kempo Cross

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    Default Kempo Cross

    Many times when you look at a lot of Kempo practiced in the USA you also see a lot of other stuff practiced with it. How many of you out there who practice some version of "fist method" also train in another system?

    Do you feel that this helps or hinders the Kempo system you train in?

    For instructors, how much of any cross training you do creaps into the systems that you teach?

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    My jiu-jitsu training creeps in all the time.

    I usually break new students in when they practice they're C-Step sweeps. Once they start feeling confident about the sweep and start to feel invincible I'll hold on to their arm as I fall and as I hit the ground up comes the leg and ...BOOM...arm-bar city baby! LOL.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    My jiu-jitsu training creeps in all the time.

    I usually break new students in when they practice they're C-Step sweeps. Once they start feeling confident about the sweep and start to feel invincible I'll hold on to their arm as I fall and as I hit the ground up comes the leg and ...BOOM...arm-bar city baby! LOL.
    LOL...I love stuff like that. However, I don't come up when I hit the deck, I simply apply the bar from the ground. I figure, there is so much floor space and I am so little, there is plenty of floor to go around. They should be on the floor with me.

    Great post Irish...can I call you Irish...(loved the green smiley by the way).

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Oh, they go to the ground.
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    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    I cross allot with my training also Ju-jitsu.. though my Ju-jitsu trainign as Goshen not Brazilian untill several years later. Mostly joint locks, choaks and throws than ground fighting.

    I find myself correcting wrist locks and wrist throws... I am supprised at how many people support their opponents wrist with their own fingers... I am one of those Uke's that will not go down unless you are doing it right... it frustrates some, but I think it is a disservice to let people think that they way they are doing a technique will work if it is not applied correctly.

    I know we should approch clas witht he empty cup mindset.. but that is so very hard to do... perhaps my ego is showing.. I am not sure.. I try very hard to keep it in check.

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    Oh, they go to the ground.
    Ahhh...the old modified juji gatamae trick...Mee likeee...
    Regards,
    Walt


    Here...let me help you with that:



    Fly...Be Free...


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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    I cross allot with my training also Ju-jitsu.. though my Ju-jitsu trainign as Goshen not Brazilian untill several years later. Mostly joint locks, choaks and throws than ground fighting.

    I find myself correcting wrist locks and wrist throws... I am supprised at how many people support their opponents wrist with their own fingers... I am one of those Uke's that will not go down unless you are doing it right... it frustrates some, but I think it is a disservice to let people think that they way they are doing a technique will work if it is not applied correctly.

    I know we should approch clas witht he empty cup mindset.. but that is so very hard to do... perhaps my ego is showing.. I am not sure.. I try very hard to keep it in check.
    That whole wrap the wrist with their fingers thing is a sore spot for me too. I am not going to fall down if they are doing it wrong. I might well cooperate when they do it right but to hit the deck for improper form is like acting knocked out by when some one pats your head.

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by kroh
    That whole wrap the wrist with their fingers thing is a sore spot for me too. I am not going to fall down if they are doing it wrong. I might well cooperate when they do it right but to hit the deck for improper form is like acting knocked out by when some one pats your head.

    Regards,
    Walt
    exaclty...

    I think I need to sit down with the head instructor and talk with him.. I am worried that I am stepping on toes with the instructors... I don't mean to but I want to make sure things are accurate.. I never outwarly say.. no thats wrong bla bla bla.. but things like... I was asked to help demonstrate the arm lock in crossing tallons and when I was on my knee and the arm was locked he said to try and get out of it.... so I did.. and I was successful because the arm was not fully rotated and, honeslty, I wear Full sleave under armour when I train and his grip was slick (annother reason I say you should trap that hand...)

    I think this is the danger of cross training.. because the last thing I want to do is undermime any of the instructors but I also think there should be at least some level of learning and rediscovery in a living art like Kenpo.

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    I think if the instructor is worth their salt they will see your attempt to help for what it is. A good instructor knows when some one is trying to undermine their authority and will put a stop to it. But the same type of instructor will also seek out your knowledge on the subject if he notices that you are more progressive in the particular area than he /she is.

    Look at guys like Dan Inosanto (JKD/Kali super dude!). Even though he was Lee's top dog and a Great FMA practitioner in his own right, he strapped on a white belt to train in the Brazilian Jiujitsu (Machado I think) system that was being taught at his academy. Some one had more knowledge about the subject than he did and he submitted so that he could learn it. Not only the mark of a great teacher but also the mark of a great person.

    If your new instructor could benefit from your experience then why wouldn't he? Only the vain ones will look at it in a negative light. Now if you are running around the "guy's house" telling people not to do things a certain way cuz the instructor isn't as good as you in those things...

    ...That is a horse of a different story...

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    and there is no way I would approch it that way.. that is just not cool.

    I am just new to the school comparitivley.. and yes it would be nice to think that all instructors are that way.. and I am not saying that these arn't... I am just still feeling them out as i am sure they are of me. ... and I sometimes get the feeling they are less than receptive... or it could simply be that I am paranoid...

    sittign ang talking to them may be the best way to approch it.

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Talking shop over a cold beer or a hot coffee is always the best way to go.

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    well as i have a 1.5 hour commute to and from work my time is limited.. I will just show up 30 min early.. or stay late.

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Mr. Bunny- Is this during a technique with strikes and kicks first or just sweep, reaps etc.?

    We have techniques where you hit the guy in the throat, then groin etc. then when you attempt the takedown they refuse to budge "until you do it right", in reality they would already be on their way down, I am just helping them (We try to do this with minimal contact if any to those areas- at least until the person does the above)

    Just curious!
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    I recently started training in the Kosho Ryu and that is how they consider throwing.

    "Here you let me help you to the ground so you no longer have to accidently run into my fist or feet."

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    I know in most Kenpo circles the people are very helpful.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe
    Mr. Bunny- Is this during a technique with strikes and kicks first or just sweep, reaps etc.?

    We have techniques where you hit the guy in the throat, then groin etc. then when you attempt the takedown they refuse to budge "until you do it right", in reality they would already be on their way down, I am just helping them (We try to do this with minimal contact if any to those areas- at least until the person does the above)

    Just curious!
    primarily throws and expecially joint manipulation.

    Hits... I prefer minimal contact showing as much controle as possible.

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Hits... I prefer minimal contact showing as much controle as possible.
    Where's the fun in that ?

    Regards,
    Walt


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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by kroh
    I recently started training in the Kosho Ryu and that is how they consider throwing.

    "Here you let me help you to the ground so you no longer have to accidently run into my fist or feet."

    Regards,
    Walt
    how true that is.

    ive only trained in kempo......but i moved from one system to kosho ryu.
    the first one had a lot of grappling and groundfighting.....the stand up stuff was like kosho, only not as refined......lol

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by kroh
    Where's the fun in that ?

    Regards,
    Walt
    are you kidding me? how fun is it to know that you are accurate enough to throw a backfist, vertical thrust, and a ridge hand all in a split second and barely even touch your uke's skin.

    personaly.. I see it as this.. power is easy... control is challenging.

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    Default Re: Kempo Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    are you kidding me? how fun is it to know that you are accurate enough to throw a backfist, vertical thrust, and a ridge hand all in a split second and barely even touch your uke's skin.

    personaly.. I see it as this.. power is easy... control is challenging.
    Ahhh, Buny San, Keep thinking like that and I am going to have to start quoting you....

    How do the people who own schools feel about all this cross training going on? Do you feel it is important enough to bring in "experts" into your club (seminars and the like) in order to learn this skill (such as a Kenpo school bringing in a Kali expert to teach knife or a tactics instructor to teach firearms)?

    Regards,
    Walt

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