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Thread: ..my principles or my honor...

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    Default ..my principles or my honor...

    "I come to you with Karate, my empty hands. I have no weapons, but if forced to defend myself, my principlels or my honor......."

    What does this part of the creed mean to you?
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Interesting question CC. For me, my principles would include the defense of those who cannot defend themselves.

    I can't say I would start something physical based on someone's words to me though. I would if I were standing up for what's right, but they would probably be swinging first.

    I'll have to give that some more thought. Good question.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    CC excellent idea to pull this question from that other post.. I agree that it deserves special attention.

    As before I think that "My principals or my honor" must be tempered with the ideas of preserving social harmony. In Japanese it is referred to as ones "Wa" or "peace." The community can have Wa, a person has Wa, the world around us has Wa. You never want to disrupt any of them.

    I think that "defending my principals or my honor" is in defense of "Wa."

    In that sence.. green could have been attempting to preserve social Wa.. but that would be determined in hi intentions and only he can answer that.

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    "I come to you with Karate, my empty hands. I have no weapons, but if forced to defend myself, my principlels or my honor......."

    What does this part of the creed mean to you?
    My principles are my values or beliefs. A persons honor is their honor no other way to say it. If someone degrates my principles or my honor than it is time to do something. Luckly that has onlly happened once so far in the past 8 years.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    My principles are my values or beliefs. A persons honor is their honor no other way to say it. If someone degrates my principles or my honor than it is time to do something. Luckily that has only happened once so far in the past 8 years.

    I think we were looking for some examples. Tell us about that one time that it did happen.


    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    I think we were looking for some examples. Tell us about that one time that it did happen.


    --Amy
    I had posted this experience before but I can not find the thread. Some of you may remember this. A few years back I was in a dormatory called the towers. The way the rooms were set up were like this. When you walk through the door there is a coridor that leads into the rest of the room. Anyways, My roomate brought one of his friends back afer a long night of drinking. I was sitting at my desk and this guy asked me to walk to the door, from there he pushed me up against the door and started wailing on my arms. I wasked him what he thought he was doing and I also asked him to stop.
    He and I never really like eachother, but back to the story. He was puching and puncing I asked him one more time to stop and he did not. So I timed his punches and when he was transitioning to his next punch I stepped up with my right foot and delivered a right heel-palm to his right eye socket. He went back about four feet over my roomates bed and into the wall. He never did anyhting after that again.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    see I am torn when it comes to that line.. due to my principals defending myself results in a loss of honor. In order to defend myself I am forced to hurt annother being and in my principals that is an affront to my honor because it forces me to disrupt peace.

    The one time I was forced to defend myself because of being attacked I did as little as was neccessary to end the fight as quickly as possible. I then appologized for inflicting the pain and damage that I did. \\


    From the Tao Te ching

    Chapter 30

    "...The skillful commander
    strikes a decisive blow then stops.
    When victory is won over the enemy through war
    it is not a thing of great pride.
    When the battle is over,
    arrogance is the new enemy."

    chap 31
    "...Only as a last resort
    will a wise person use a deadly weapon.
    If peace is her true objective
    how can she rejoice in the victory of war?
    Those who rejoice in victory
    delight in the slaughter of humanity."

    "...Victory celibrations should be treated like a funeral"

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    So I timed his punches and when he was transitioning to his next punch I stepped up with my right foot and delivered a right heel-palm to his right eye socket. He went back about four feet over my roomates bed and into the wall. He never did anyhting after that again.
    That's a good story, but it sounds more like you were protecting yourself, not your principles or your honor.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    I believe principles, as used in the context of the creed means: A basic or essential quality or element determining intrinsic nature or characteristic behavior; the principle of self-preservation for instance. If my life is threatened, then I am perfectly within my rights to defend myself. But we all have many principles we adhere to and they vary per individual. Currently, some muslims feel they are defending their principles by blowing stuff up. That contrasts with my, and many others, principle belief that the lives of innocents should not be forfeit. Now, who defines who's an innocent? Does your brain hurt yet? I heard an intresting quote last night concerning this, "They are willing to kill themselves for their principles, yet we are unwilling to even fight for ours."

    Honor could be percieved in different ways. In this context it could be related to your good name or reputation. In that vein, how far should you go to defend your good name and reputation? What if something someone said about you affected you financially? Like rumors being spread about your school which costs you current and future students). That would be worth defending wouldn't it? But what if someone just called you a worthless so-and-so? Does that really hurt you? Not really. But I'd have to admit if someone said something inappropriate to my fiance'.... well... I'll refer you to an old Irish saying, "It is often a man's mouth broke his nose." LOL.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    That's a good story, but it sounds more like you were protecting yourself, not your principles or your honor.

    --Amy
    ok so sue me lol. I have been lucky enough so far as I said before.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    In order to defend myself I am forced to hurt annother being and in my principals that is an affront to my honor because it forces me to disrupt peace.
    Following that logic, if they are attacking YOU is it not THEM that is disrupting the peace? Is it not YOUR duty to try everything in your power to restore that peace that you honor so much?
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    For me... Defending one's self, yes. Defending one's principles... if the principle is to defend another person or my country, yes. Defending my honor in the base sense of the word, no. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.” Matthew 5:38-39

    But that's just me.
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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Nice post Eraserhead.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    see I am torn when it comes to that line.. due to my principals defending myself results in a loss of honor. In order to defend myself I am forced to hurt annother being and in my principals that is an affront to my honor because it forces me to disrupt peace.

    The one time I was forced to defend myself because of being attacked I did as little as was neccessary to end the fight as quickly as possible. I then appologized for inflicting the pain and damage that I did. \\


    From the Tao Te ching

    Chapter 30

    "...The skillful commander strikes a decisive blow then stops. When victory is won over the enemy through war it is not a thing of great pride. When the battle is over, arrogance is the new enemy."

    chap 31"...Only as a last resort will a wise person use a deadly weapon. If peace is her true objective how can she rejoice in the victory of war? Those who rejoice in victory delight in the slaughter of humanity."

    "...Victory celibrations should be treated like a funeral"
    -Camey

    "You mean, you'll put down your rock and I'll put down my sword, and we'll try and kill each other like civilized people? "

    SUPPORT KENPOTALK:http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/payments.php

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    Following that logic, if they are attacking YOU is it not THEM that is disrupting the peace? Is it not YOUR duty to try everything in your power to restore that peace that you honor so much?
    We are both disrupting peace, them by attacking me, and me by bringing pain into this world.

    So I did what I could to bring compassion to the situation by honestly apologizing for hurting him.

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    We are both disrupting peace, them by attacking me, and me by bringing pain into this world.

    So I did what I could to bring compassion to the situation by honestly apologizing for hurting him.
    But you still hurt him. In order to do your part shouldn't you just have let him beat you up? I'm not trying to upset you or badger you. I just want to understand where you're coming from.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    To me it means I will do what it takes to protect the inocent people around me and myself at what ever cost. And to protect my honor as a Martial Artist.

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    But you still hurt him. In order to do your part shouldn't you just have let him beat you up? I'm not trying to upset you or badger you. I just want to understand where you're coming from.
    Nono not at all... I would hope that people here would notice by now that I love questions.

    It's a fine line when it comes to application of force and maintaining peace.

    If I really wanted to I could argue that by hurting him I minimalized the ammount of pain brought into the world by ending it at a decisive powerfull strike. I however cannot honestly say that all of this reasoning occured as his fist was headed to my face. He attacked, I reacted with self preservation. That is the point where I am saddend by doing what had to be done.

    Violence is always the last option.. when it is forced it needs to be ended as quickly as possible, when you are victorious then you must mourn because victory came at the expense of annother, reguardless of it's cause.

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    BTW.. you can Badger me all you want... but you cannot upset me...

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    Default Re: ..my principles or my honor...

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    Nono not at all... I would hope that people here would notice by now that I love questions.

    It's a fine line when it comes to application of force and maintaining peace.

    If I really wanted to I could argue that by hurting him I minimalized the ammount of pain brought into the world by ending it at a decisive powerfull strike. I however cannot honestly say that all of this reasoning occured as his fist was headed to my face. He attacked, I reacted with self preservation. That is the point where I am saddend by doing what had to be done.

    Violence is always the last option.. when it is forced it needs to be ended as quickly as possible, when you are victorious then you must mourn because victory came at the expense of annother, reguardless of it's cause.
    I agree with you on most of these points. Violence should be a last resort for the most part. And, TBH I've always fealt kind of guilty after whuppin somebody (with a couple of exceptions. )
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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