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    Default What are your beliefs??

    In YOUR OWN OPINION what does a belt rank REALLY mean to you? Is it something spectacular or is it to just show what level you have learned up to, or other wise? what do you believe?

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Your belt rank shows the level of your personal achievement.

    It should garner a certain amount of respect (tradionally), but more realistically, respect should be earned by your interactions with others.

    Too often the respect of position is erroded by the attitude and behaviour of the person in that position.

    Les
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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Quote Originally Posted by Les
    Your belt rank shows the level of your personal achievement.

    It should garner a certain amount of respect (tradionally), but more realistically, respect should be earned by your interactions with others.

    Too often the respect of position is erroded by the attitude and behaviour of the person in that position.

    Les
    Well said.

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    as far as skill.. very little

    as far as maturity... very little

    as far as wisdom and insight... very little

    in the grand scheme of things... even less.

    Rank is simply that in a single form. Belt color immedialy identifies seniority and often instructor within a closed system to use a thermodynamics term. That closed system is confiend within that particular school. It is also often used to determin the point at which a particular student has learned with an accaptable ammount of compitance a foundation that will allow them to be taught more advanced technique.

    Unfortunatly rank, belt color, or even the idea of it inevitably becomes a badge of honor and feeds the ego of ones ability with in and outside of that closed system. This is where you have problems with ego and politics.

    I admit that within my personal closed system I am oftne eger to learn more and gain the next rank as a sence of self acomplishment... but it is important to remember the ultimatly the rank or the color of the belt is meaningless on the street... only the individual skill, sense of peace,and self control remains to have any meaning.

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    as far as skill.. very little

    as far as maturity... very little

    as far as wisdom and insight... very little

    in the grand scheme of things... even less.

    Rank is simply that in a single form. Belt color immedialy identifies seniority and often instructor within a closed system to use a thermodynamics term. That closed system is confiend within that particular school. It is also often used to determin the point at which a particular student has learned with an accaptable ammount of compitance a foundation that will allow them to be taught more advanced technique.

    Unfortunatly rank, belt color, or even the idea of it inevitably becomes a badge of honor and feeds the ego of ones ability with in and outside of that closed system. This is where you have problems with ego and politics.

    I admit that within my personal closed system I am oftne eger to learn more and gain the next rank as a sence of self acomplishment... but it is important to remember the ultimatly the rank or the color of the belt is meaningless on the street... only the individual skill, sense of peace,and self control remains to have any meaning.
    I agree, Well said
    Yours Truly
    Kenpo0324

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    It means my pants won't fall down.

    Most folks need to "see" progress to stay motivated and feel a sense of accomplishment. That's pretty much the purpose I thnk they serve. Otherwise, unless you plan on strangling someone with it, it doesn't have much other use for self defense.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Ė Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    It means my pants won't fall down.

    Most folks need to "see" progress to stay motivated and feel a sense of accomplishment. That's pretty much the purpose I thnk they serve. Otherwise, unless you plan on strangling someone with it, it doesn't have much other use for self defense.
    they are too thick to use as an effective garrot... I've tried.... In class ... sheesh.. stop giving me that look.

    better to choke someone out using a light weight Gi or their shirt or jacket... the fabric is thiner feels more like a piano wire compaired to a heavy gi or the belt.

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo89
    In YOUR OWN OPINION what does a belt rank REALLY mean to you? Is it something spectacular or is it to just show what level you have learned up to, or other wise? what do you believe?
    A belt is just that, It is what you know that counts.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    As the saying goes: It's not what you show, it's what you know that counts.

    For me, my black belt was reaching a goal I'd set years ago. Finishing one part of my training and beginning of a whole new phase of my kenpo experience.

    It's like seeing the art in a whole different way.

    And achieving black belt is like being invited into an exclusive club (the past 25 years or so being a really LONG hazing period.)

    --Amy
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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    I know after I got my black belt I went back and starting refining everything I was taught.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Me too.

    After getting my black belt, (and healing from my knee injury from the test), I started being sincere and diligent about my training.

    I started practicing regularly and looking at all the moves more closely.

    I'm finding though that all this practicing, while helping me improve, is exhausting. Dang, I'm getting old.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    You guys are being a little cynical. Used improperly, the negative connotations stated are very true, but there can be value. I'm not talking about the person who has achieved the level of understanding what the journey is all about, which is actually a small percentage of martial artists but the average student who hasn't mentally and spiritually hit that level yet.

    First of all, what does it mean to the student? I see no reason why a student shouldn't be proud of achieving a belt. That will be tempered soon enough when they start slogging through a new set of techniques that are more difficult than the ones they've done up until then, and the level of detail required also goes up. Keeping politics and ego in check is the responsibility of the instructor. Seeing this and not addressing it I think is doing the student a disfavor. In addition, the student should also be guided away from the notion that the belt is everything as they advance in rank and are ready for that concept. Once they start to achieve higher levels, the emphasis needs to be adjusted to the journey, not the belt. It's a natural progression of a martial artist and plays a party in the mind and spirit aspects of MA. By the time a student gets to brown belt, they should understand and accept this concept. Again, this is the responsibility of the instructor.

    Yes, a belt just a benchmark for where that student is in the system but depending on the system, it can be a relative indication of where the student is in regards to defending themselves on the street, for that particular student. But a general expectation of where the student should be in regards to SD should be tied to the belt, otherwise, why use them at all? If it's not, then a belt is just a piece of cloth that's used as a visual motivator.

    We look at particular benchmarks for proficiency. Someone achieving blue belt has gone from a beginner to an intermediate martial artist. Blue belt is not an easy thing to achieve as a result. We consider a brown belt to be a martial arts "professional" in our system. That doesn't mean that they've achieved perfection in everything they do but it does mean they are highly proficient and experts in Bok Fu Do. That's why everything a student has learned up to this point is part of achieving a brown belt, and it must be demonstrated to a high level of proficiency. If a brown belt is not highly proficient and quite capable of taking care of themselves on the street, then they shouldn't be wearing the belt. A student should be rightly proud of achieving a brown belt but they also know that it's just a significant step on a much longer journey.

    In the journey of self that is one of the main principle of martial arts, yes, a belt doesn't mean a whole lot but within the mechanics of that journey, the belt can have a definite impact. It's up to the teacher to make sure that impact is positive, not negative.

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca
    You guys are being a little cynical. Used improperly, the negative connotations stated are very true, but there can be value. I'm not talking about the person who has achieved the level of understanding what the journey is all about, which is actually a small percentage of martial artists but the average student who hasn't mentally and spiritually hit that level yet.

    First of all, what does it mean to the student? I see no reason why a student shouldn't be proud of achieving a belt. That will be tempered soon enough when they start slogging through a new set of techniques that are more difficult than the ones they've done up until then, and the level of detail required also goes up. Keeping politics and ego in check is the responsibility of the instructor. Seeing this and not addressing it I think is doing the student a disfavor. In addition, the student should also be guided away from the notion that the belt is everything as they advance in rank and are ready for that concept. Once they start to achieve higher levels, the emphasis needs to be adjusted to the journey, not the belt. It's a natural progression of a martial artist and plays a party in the mind and spirit aspects of MA. By the time a student gets to brown belt, they should understand and accept this concept. Again, this is the responsibility of the instructor.

    Yes, a belt just a benchmark for where that student is in the system but depending on the system, it can be a relative indication of where the student is in regards to defending themselves on the street, for that particular student. But a general expectation of where the student should be in regards to SD should be tied to the belt, otherwise, why use them at all? If it's not, then a belt is just a piece of cloth that's used as a visual motivator.

    We look at particular benchmarks for proficiency. Someone achieving blue belt has gone from a beginner to an intermediate martial artist. Blue belt is not an easy thing to achieve as a result. We consider a brown belt to be a martial arts "professional" in our system. That doesn't mean that they've achieved perfection in everything they do but it does mean they are highly proficient and experts in Bok Fu Do. That's why everything a student has learned up to this point is part of achieving a brown belt, and it must be demonstrated to a high level of proficiency. If a brown belt is not highly proficient and quite capable of taking care of themselves on the street, then they shouldn't be wearing the belt. A student should be rightly proud of achieving a brown belt but they also know that it's just a significant step on a much longer journey.

    In the journey of self that is one of the main principle of martial arts, yes, a belt doesn't mean a whole lot but within the mechanics of that journey, the belt can have a definite impact. It's up to the teacher to make sure that impact is positive, not negative.
    Yes I agree, people are at certain parts in their journey but just because a person has a certain color belt does not mean they always are deserving of it. If you put a purple belt up against a brown belt in sparing and the purple belt beats the day lights out of the brown belt. THan what will people say. I have been to many tests for black belts and I have seen many black belts get a belt they do not deserve but I keep my mouth shut. Once a person gets their black belt they are seen as a master of the art in other arts eyes, so just because a person has a belt that does not mean much to me. It is what they know that counts.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    I think belts are important to get. It just depends on what it means to the person.

    When I got my blue belt, after much hard work and an arduous test, we all went out afterwards for pizza. I had waited so long to wear that belt, that (like the dork I am), I couldn't take it off. I got dressed without taking it off and put my sweatshirt over it.

    I felt completely dorky until I noticed that my friend Sam, who also got his blue, had a new bulge around his waist too.

    The blue belt meant the absolute world to me. No other belt meant as much until I got to black. So it just depends.

    And with each belt, it takes awhile to grow into it.

    I got my black belt and at first, felt a little bit like a fake. Now I've owned it a little better. I still feel like a baby black belt, but that's okay. Babies grow.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    To me, it signifies that youve just started. Youve been given the all the tools and now its time to apply them.

    Sure, as you progressed you got work with a lot of "fancy schmancy" moves...yet for me, after I got my black, it was about breaking those fancy moves down and going back to the basics. The basics suddenly had a greater meaning and beauty in their simplicity. Ive gone thru the motions, but now the motions have meaning.

    I guess I could liken it to HTML editing. When I started out, I used Front Page Express, which allowed me to "drag and drop" elements in to get what I wanted. Eventually, I started looking at the raw code to see what made what work. If you don't underdtand how it works, how you gonna fix it when you break it!
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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Not to sound goofy but the first thing the color of my belt means to me is where I should line up on the mat in class. I would have to say that I do look up to people that have reached black belt in any style. Not so much for the ability of that person to hold there own but more so because they never quit. That person when to class through thick and thin and never gave up. But also because most, well I should say all black belts in Kenpo should be able to do the techs and forms in a way that I hope to when I have put in enough time to reach that level. But getting back on topic of what my belt color means to me, well it means that I have a basic working knowledge of the techís that my instructor requires to that level. I am still only an Orange belt so I donít have a lot of people in class looking up to me but it is like a progress report that I wear on my waist.

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo89
    In YOUR OWN OPINION what does a belt rank REALLY mean to you? Is it something spectacular or is it to just show what level you have learned up to, or other wise? what do you believe?
    It is my instructors opinion of me.


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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate
    Yes I agree, people are at certain parts in their journey but just because a person has a certain color belt does not mean they always are deserving of it. If you put a purple belt up against a brown belt in sparing and the purple belt beats the day lights out of the brown belt. THan what will people say. I have been to many tests for black belts and I have seen many black belts get a belt they do not deserve but I keep my mouth shut. Once a person gets their black belt they are seen as a master of the art in other arts eyes, so just because a person has a belt that does not mean much to me. It is what they know that counts.
    I fully appreciate your point of view but to me, this is a school issue and not a belt issue. If someone is awarded a belt they are not ready for, then why were they given it? I think this is probably the biggest problem facing martial arts in this country and the main reason for the opinion that "any good street fighter can kick a BB's ***".

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca
    I fully appreciate your point of view but to me, this is a school issue and not a belt issue. If someone is awarded a belt they are not ready for, then why were they given it? I think this is probably the biggest problem facing martial arts in this country and the main reason for the opinion that "any good street fighter can kick a BB's ***".
    No disagreement here
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: What are your beliefs??

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    as far as skill.. very little

    as far as maturity... very little

    as far as wisdom and insight... very little
    If you are taught by an excellent instructor, all of the above are wrong.

    If you are taught by an instructor from a McDojo, all of the are correct.


    Jamie Seabrook

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