Forward Rolls

[Gunman5000]

I've been having difficulty with doing forward rolls in class so I was hoping to maybe get a little insight on it here on the forums. I've been shown how to do them properly and understand the basic concepts of it and how to properly execute it, the problem is when I go to do them I always get nervous about it and end up botching it, generally turning it into a shoulder roll of some sort. I know exactly what my problem is as well, I've got a fear that when I go to do the roll I'll mess it up and land on my head/neck and injure myself, worst case scenario breaking my neck. I know its somewhat foolish since I know its easy to do, the problem is actually doing it. I realize it may be futile but I was wondering if anyone knew of any techniques or methods of getting over that fear without actually just doing the roll, lol. Kinda looking for the easy way out I guess. I've got a feeling I'm just gonna need more time to practice it though.

Thanks in advance for your guys help,

Adam

[toejoe2k]

I teach japanese jujitsu and see what you have described more often that one might think.
The way to begin is very slowly. Then, practice many times...very slowly.

1. spread your feet more than shoulder width apart
2. bend your knees and drop your butt toward the ground.
3. Place your elbows on your knees so that you look like an ape (it's
what I tell the kids).
4. place the BACK of your hands down on the mat i.e. palms up with your
thumbs pointing away from you.
5. tuck your chin so that you can look at your belly button but, cock
your head to one side; like putting your ear to one shoulder.
6. RELAX your body and push off with your feet so that you roll forward
and keep your chin tucked through most of the roll.

Start low and slow. Practice often and relax.

When you roll, don't roll directly on your spine because you never know what's sticking up out of the ground. That's the reason you put your head off to the side while looking at your belt/belly button. You want to imagine a line painted on your back that runs parallel to your spine and one inch away from it. You want that entire line to touch the mat as you roll.
I teach that the correct finishing posture of the roll is one knee up and one knee down but, you will need to consult your instructor for the preferred finishing posture.

Do all of the above incrementally, slowly and while relaxed. The more you practice the step-by-step method, the more comfortable you will become. The key is to relax. By relaxing, you let your body conform to the ground as opposed to striking against it...less discomfort.

Don't doubt your ability. With practice, you'll own it in no time. Just practice low and slow...get that butt down close to the ground before you roll.

Good luck and keep us informed on your progress.

[punisher73]

Like any technique that you learn, you have to have faith in yourself and the technique to allow it to happen.

I remember an old "Peanuts" cartoon, it was Snoopy and Woodstock on the dog house and Woodstock was asked how he flies. Do you flap your wings then push off, or do you push off and then flap your wings? Well, Woodstock really starts to think about how he flies and ends up falling to the ground. He responds "I guess I just have to do it"

I think with rolls, you just have to do it. Maybe practice them on a really soft surface to reduce the fear of injury in your mind and then work to a little bit firmer surface. Also, practice doing perfect rolls in your mind and incorporate as many details (senses) into your visulization as possible. Always picture yourself doing it perfectly with no errors.

[Rob Broad]

Try a blindfold, as ridiculous as it seems it will make it easier after the first time. You get frightened as you see the ground approaching. Rolling is a natural act as we grow up we unlearn this valuable skill.

[Ray]

This is how I teach the forward roll:
Bend over at the waist.
Place your palm on the floor in front of you (fingers pointing inward [e.g if right hand, then fingers point left])-bending your knees accordingly to allow this to happen comfortably.
Fall forward, allowing the ground to make contact with the outside of your forearm; up to the shoulder where you use the head (tilted sideways and tucked in away from the ground) and shoulder to make contact with the ground.
Rounding your back like a turtle shell, continue the direction of your roll
As your feet make contact with the ground, your legs make a figure four so that one leg is bent inward at the knee and the flat of the other foot makes contact with the ground (and that leg is also bent at the knee--and is on top of the other leg). The momentum of the roll should help you to stand up, ready to go.

[Rob Broad]

This is how I teach the forward roll:
Bend over at the waist.
Place your palm on the floor in front of you (fingers pointing inward [e.g if right hand, then fingers point left])-bending your knees accordingly to allow this to happen comfortably.
Fall forward, allowing the ground to make contact with the outside of your forearm; up to the shoulder where you use the head (tilted sideways and tucked in away from the ground) and shoulder to make contact with the ground.
Rounding your back like a turtle shell, continue the direction of your roll
As your feet make contact with the ground, your legs make a figure four so that one leg is bent inward at the knee and the flat of the other foot makes contact with the ground (and that leg is also bent at the knee--and is on top of the other leg). The momentum of the roll should help you to stand up, ready to go.

That is a shoulder roll, which is also in his curriculum

[Brother John]

I was going to try to add my .02
But then ToeJoe2k had to go and RUIN it all by giving you better advice than I could ever hope too.


Your Brother
John

[Ray]

That is a shoulder roll, which is also in his curriculum

There's only one thing I can say: I'll add the well described (by toejoe2k) forward roll to my private practice.

[Big Don]

Try a blindfold, as ridiculous as it seems it will make it easier after the first time. You get frightened as you see the ground approaching. Rolling is a natural act as we grow up we unlearn this valuable skill.

For some reason rolling terrifies me. Rappelling is fun, bungee jumping was a blast, asking me to roll, makes me want to run scared. It scares me that the blindfold idea may work for me.

[Gunman5000]

Thanks everyone for the input, I'll definately be experimenting with all the ideas that have been put up. Haven't had too much of a chance yet with the Holidays and all but I'll let you know how it goes come the New Year.

One quick question though, toejoe2k why do you say to put the BACK of your hands on the floor? It seems that if your rolling forward that would cause your wrists to bend unnaturally as you started the roll, or do you not use your hands/arms to hold yourself up in your rolls?

[toejoe2k]

For some reason rolling terrifies me. Rappelling is fun, bungee jumping was a blast, asking me to roll, makes me want to run scared. It scares me that the blindfold idea may work for me.

All the more reason to practice, practice, practice rolls and breakfalls. One thing that every human being will eventually succumb to (other than death) is gravity. How damaging the meeting of you and the ground becomes can be greatly affected by your ability to roll and fall correctly.
I am so friggin' clumsy that I get to prove this point very often. I fell in a used car parking lot the other day...I fell like I was thrown. But, I was able to get up and laugh at myself because I still go through my rolls and breakfalls before every class...and I get strange looks as I'm the only one in the Kenpo studio that does it.

[Kempojujutsu]

If you put your palm down and roll over it, could cause you injury your wrist. When you practice this and you try to catch yourself with your hand there are 3 possible joints that can be broke, the wrist, elbow and collar bone. When doing it at speed my wrist doesn't touch the ground at all. It's more forearm/ shoulder blade. Hope this helps

[toejoe2k]

Thanks everyone for the input, I'll definately be experimenting with all the ideas that have been put up. Haven't had too much of a chance yet with the Holidays and all but I'll let you know how it goes come the New Year.

One quick question though, toejoe2k why do you say to put the BACK of your hands on the floor? It seems that if your rolling forward that would cause your wrists to bend unnaturally as you started the roll, or do you not use your hands/arms to hold yourself up in your rolls?

You actually have it right. I teach the "palms up" method for a couple of reasons:
1. It discourages the development (or prepetuation) of using a stiff arm and palm down to "brace" for a fall. So many people sprain thier wrists during a fall because of this. Turn your plams up and distribute as much of your body across the fall as possible and you'll suffer much less injury.

2. The wrists just bend more naturally inward than outward.

Ideally, you would not even use your hands during a roll or fall until the very end, to interrupt inertia and stop moving. That's why people "slap" the mat or floor when practicing rolls and falls.

I cannot stress the importance of these exercises enough. Everyone falls...period. In my old age, I hope to have this down to such a science that a fall would not break a hip...at least, it hasn't yet...

[toejoe2k]

I was going to try to add my .02
But then ToeJoe2k had to go and RUIN it all by giving you better advice than I could ever hope too.


Your Brother
John

You say this as if you have never made me feel like a mental midget (no offense to any midgets who may frequent this forum) with your astute knowledge and wisdom. You, sir are a blessing to this board and have no reason to lament the fact that I simply beat you to the punch...this time.

[Dianhsuhe]

This is how I teach the forward roll:
Bend over at the waist.
Place your palm on the floor in front of you (fingers pointing inward [e.g if right hand, then fingers point left])-bending your knees accordingly to allow this to happen comfortably.
Fall forward, allowing the ground to make contact with the outside of your forearm; up to the shoulder where you use the head (tilted sideways and tucked in away from the ground) and shoulder to make contact with the ground.
Rounding your back like a turtle shell, continue the direction of your roll
As your feet make contact with the ground, your legs make a figure four so that one leg is bent inward at the knee and the flat of the other foot makes contact with the ground (and that leg is also bent at the knee--and is on top of the other leg). The momentum of the roll should help you to stand up, ready to go.

The version Ray mentioned above is the version we use in Kara-Ho Kempo.

The key to this is a nice big thick pad! We have a fat pad (8" thick maybe) so it would be very difficult to injure oneself- then we have thinner blue pads (the ones that velcro together). Then we progress to the hard ground/ carpet and finally go outside and roll on the blacktop.

The thick pad should ease your nerves until you get the hang of it, then go with less padding as your instructor sees fit until you can roll on the hardest of surfaces.

Interesting that of all of the self-defense techniques our Kenpo/Kempo styles teach us, a simple roll is far more likely to save our butts over the course of a lifetime. Grandmaster Kuoha got thrown off a spooked horse and promptly did a shoulder roll, popping to his feet uninjured. I have tripped in the yard and did a forward roll, better than a face first landiong which I have also done!

Have you done any backward rolls yet? These come in handy while doing techniques along with break-falls.

Cheers!

[Gunman5000]

Once again, thanks for input I really appreciate it. I still haven't had much of a chance to try out the different methods of rolling but am definately looking forward to it, strangely enough.

Kempojujutsu and toejoe2k, thanks for answering my questions about the "palm up" thing. I never even thought about the fact that either way the wrist is likely to be bent in an unnatural way should something go wrong. I have to admit that I have been of the mindset to use "palm down" exactly for the reason that toejoe2k said he tries to discourage, the whole stiff arm thing.

I'll let you know how things go on Wednesday when I get to try out the rolls again, hopefully with favourable results.

Also I havent managed the back rolls yet either, mainly for the same reason as the front rolls, I still subconciously try my damndest to turn it into a shoulder roll of some sort, lol. Those'll be my next task after getting the forward rolls working.

[toejoe2k]

Also I havent managed the back rolls yet either, mainly for the same reason as the front rolls, I still subconciously try my damndest to turn it into a shoulder roll of some sort, lol. Those'll be my next task after getting the forward rolls working.

I'll start a new thread on back break falls and backward rolls (they are so closely related that it wouldn't make sense to do it twice...

[Rob Broad]

Here is a video clip that has me breakingdown Shoulder Rolls, Front Rolls and Back Rolls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfh9V3joJNE

[Gunman5000]

Well I havent had a chance to get on here in quite a while, but I finally did manage to get both the forward and backwards rolls done. Blindfolding/closing my eyes turned out to be all the help I ended up needing, well that an some training so that I rolled straight forward instead of to the side at almost a 45. Now I just need to try and do them from standing, lol.

Thanks again to everyone for all their help and advice.