Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Having trouble with "point of origin"

  1. #1
    Benny-AR is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Orange Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas
    Posts
    123
    Thanks
    89
    Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts

    Default Having trouble with "point of origin"

    I'm an ex football and baseball player. Everything we did had a "cocking" motion involved. And because of that, point of origin has given me some trouble. I understand the importance and the reasoning behind it. And when I concentrate on that aspect of things, I can pretty much get a handle on it. But it's a still a nasty little habit that I'm having trouble with on a number of techniques and even forms as I have a tendency to pull the arm back before executing inward blocks in short form 1 and long form one.

    If anyone has some drills, analogies, Jedi mind tricks, whatever to ingrain this concept into my head so I don't have to focus as much energy on this one aspect, that would be pretty awesome.

    Also, is this a common issue for newcomers?

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Benny-AR For This Useful Post:

    Brother John (07-19-2007)

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wichita, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    2,467
    Thanks
    2,019
    Thanked 1,277 Times in 709 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    1st and FOREMOST....let your instructor(s) know about your feelings on this!!

    They'll probably know exactly where you're coming from and be able to give you pointers and Immediate drills/helps to solve this for you.

    It's not uncommon.
    You're not alone.

    Your Brother
    John
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ((if you use "FaceBook", look me up there by name))
    "Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted"
    ~ David Bly

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Brother John For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007),MARSHALLS KENPO (07-19-2007),thedan (07-19-2007)

  5. #3
    Sentinel is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Orange Belt
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    At home, playing chess with a bust of Julius Caesar
    Posts
    199
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 97 Times in 46 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    I echo what Brother John says. And remember that it's worth spending the time to work on, since striking from "point of origin" has a lot to do with how quickly and smoothly your techniques are delivered.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sentinel For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007),Brother John (07-19-2007)

  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    1st and FOREMOST....let your instructor(s) know about your feelings on this!!

    They'll probably know exactly where you're coming from and be able to give you pointers and Immediate drills/helps to solve this for you.

    It's not uncommon.
    You're not alone.

    Your Brother
    John
    Listen to Brother John on this.
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MARSHALLS KENPO For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007),Brother John (07-19-2007)

  9. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    2,796
    Thanks
    578
    Thanked 1,842 Times in 1,069 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny-AR View Post
    I'm an ex football and baseball player. Everything we did had a "cocking" motion involved. And because of that, point of origin has given me some trouble. I understand the importance and the reasoning behind it. And when I concentrate on that aspect of things, I can pretty much get a handle on it. But it's a still a nasty little habit that I'm having trouble with on a number of techniques and even forms as I have a tendency to pull the arm back before executing inward blocks in short form 1 and long form one.

    If anyone has some drills, analogies, Jedi mind tricks, whatever to ingrain this concept into my head so I don't have to focus as much energy on this one aspect, that would be pretty awesome.

    Also, is this a common issue for newcomers?
    sometimes something that looks like "cocking", does not go in a straight line from points a to b, and is still moving from point of origin... "most efficient" and "most effective" is not always "shortest path".
    -David C
    http://www.kungfubooksonline.com

    "...while you guys are arguing, I'm on the grind."
    - an anonymous brick puncher

    "If you don't ask the right questions, I can't give you the answers, and if you don't know the right question to ask, you're not ready for the answers"
    -Ed Parker Sr.

    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DavidCC For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007),MARSHALLS KENPO (07-19-2007),thedan (07-19-2007)

  11. #6
    bujuts is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Blue Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    387
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 299 Times in 164 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Bag work. Not just striking it for a workout, but understand how to forcefully apply combinations contained within the sets and whatever techniques you're working on. Just hit, I'm thinking it will iron itself out. Comments, anyone?

    Steven Brown
    UKF

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to bujuts For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007),thedan (07-19-2007)

  13. #7
    Anoise is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Purple Belt
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ventura CA
    Posts
    253
    Thanks
    104
    Thanked 49 Times in 44 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    I had trouble with this...after almost 5 years of TKD I was so used to cocking I had a hard time breaking the habbit. You just have to think about it as you do the techniques. Let the people you are working with know you want them to point it out when you are doing it.

    You also have to think of the next move, because sometimes the 'cocking' is just a follow through of the previous move.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Anoise For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007)

  15. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    SpoVaWA
    Posts
    4,387
    Thanks
    1,765
    Thanked 1,793 Times in 1,309 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny-AR View Post
    I'm an ex football and baseball player. Everything we did had a "cocking" motion involved. And because of that, point of origin has given me some trouble. I understand the importance and the reasoning behind it. And when I concentrate on that aspect of things, I can pretty much get a handle on it. But it's a still a nasty little habit that I'm having trouble with on a number of techniques and even forms as I have a tendency to pull the arm back before executing inward blocks in short form 1 and long form one.

    If anyone has some drills, analogies, Jedi mind tricks, whatever to ingrain this concept into my head so I don't have to focus as much energy on this one aspect, that would be pretty awesome.

    Also, is this a common issue for newcomers?
    Cocking is not bad and you should strive to do it; however, there are good and bad methods. If I were you I would consider the idea of bringing my body to my hand rather than pulling my hand back to my body, contour your body on everything you do, and study points of reference.
    Sean

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to KenpoChanger For This Useful Post:

    amylong (07-20-2007),Benny-AR (07-20-2007),DavidCC (07-19-2007),MARSHALLS KENPO (07-20-2007),Mikael151 (07-19-2007)

  17. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    2,796
    Thanks
    578
    Thanked 1,842 Times in 1,069 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    "bringing my body to my hand " interesting....
    -David C
    http://www.kungfubooksonline.com

    "...while you guys are arguing, I'm on the grind."
    - an anonymous brick puncher

    "If you don't ask the right questions, I can't give you the answers, and if you don't know the right question to ask, you're not ready for the answers"
    -Ed Parker Sr.

    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to DavidCC For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007)

  19. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    6,026
    Thanks
    1,199
    Thanked 1,520 Times in 909 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Definately address it with your instructor.

    First, relax!

    Secondly, you hit on part of the answer in your initial post.
    ...when I concentrate on that aspect of things, I can pretty much get a handle on it.
    Mental focus on the physical is necessary in all areas of kenpo. Couple this with the bag work bujuts suggested and the physical repitition will work in tandem with your mental focus to ingrain the principle into the execution of your maneuvers. Eventually, you will replace one habit for another.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Celtic_Crippler For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007),Mikael151 (07-19-2007)

  21. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,818
    Thanks
    984
    Thanked 337 Times in 234 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny-AR View Post
    I'm an ex football and baseball player. Everything we did had a "cocking" motion involved. And because of that, point of origin has given me some trouble. ... I have a tendency to pull the arm back before executing inward blocks in short form 1 and long form one.
    First, when you say "cocking", i think most of us are thinking about the chambering done to build proper muscle presentation and skeletal alignment when we practice basics. This also builds these traits in synaptic/muscle memory so that when the block, strike, etc., delivers from point of origin it still has structure and power. This is a good thing to practice. It is what you did in baseball when you wound up a pitch and steped into a throw, and when you fielded a ball and made a quick throw to first.

    I get the idea that what you are actually having trouble with is pulling back a block or a strike, then thrusting it forward, trying to develope more power by "cocking" so you have more travel. This can actually rob power, and it certainly increases time of delivery and telegraphs your move. As bujuts said, some quality bag work should help overcome this. I also think that practicing your basics with the full "chambered" sequence, but properly done, will help. While you do not move from point of origin, and there is a lot of "wasted" movment in a fully chambered basic strike or block, it is not the short pull back that you are experiencing. You get the feeling of a well delivered movment, as opposed to the unstructured flinch of a telegraphed strike.

    Dan C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to thedan For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007)

  23. #12
    Benny-AR is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Orange Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas
    Posts
    123
    Thanks
    89
    Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts

    Thumbs up Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Thanks for the good advice. I actually joined a gym this past week that has a big open room with mirrors for aerobics class or something. It's usually empty when I go to work out, and I've noticed that watching myself and getting a visual image has helped me pick up on it. It's almost easier to see than to feel, even though it's my own body.

    But again, thanks for the quality advice.

  24. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    My thought about point of origin is 'wherever you go, there you are.'

    So go from where you are.

    You might also try doing things very slowly and when you hit a spot where you're cocking when you don't intend to, go back two steps and do it again moving from POO (okay, that made me laugh) until the POO move is smooth.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  25. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to amylong For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007),Celtic_Crippler (07-20-2007),MARSHALLS KENPO (07-20-2007)

  26. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny-AR View Post
    Thanks for the good advice. I actually joined a gym this past week that has a big open room with mirrors for aerobics class or something. It's usually empty when I go to work out, and I've noticed that watching myself and getting a visual image has helped me pick up on it. It's almost easier to see than to feel, even though it's my own body.

    But again, thanks for the quality advice.
    Your getting some great advice here. I really like what Amy said.
    ( until the POO move is smooth.)
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to MARSHALLS KENPO For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-20-2007)

  28. #15
    Anoise is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Purple Belt
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ventura CA
    Posts
    253
    Thanks
    104
    Thanked 49 Times in 44 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    My thought about point of origin is 'wherever you go, there you are.'

    So go from where you are.

    You might also try doing things very slowly and when you hit a spot where you're cocking when you don't intend to, go back two steps and do it again moving from POO (okay, that made me laugh) until the POO move is smooth.

    --Amy
    A little fiber will help with that!

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Anoise For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-22-2007),MARSHALLS KENPO (07-20-2007)

  30. #16
    Hawke is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    55
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Default Re: Having trouble with "point of origin"

    Not sure what to add that has not been said.

    Definately let your instructor know.

    Go slow to build your muscle memory.

    I also had problems with this as well. Actually I have a ton of challenges for my instructor...hehehe. Eventually you will flow from point A to B,C,D...etc.
    “Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.”

    ~Dali Lama




  31. The Following User Says Thank You to Hawke For This Useful Post:

    Benny-AR (07-22-2007)

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)