Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: when do you back off???

  1. #1
    kit
    kit is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    78
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts

    Default when do you back off???

    The following question came to mind after I heard about a middle school student beating up on his teacher, breaking his neck, not killing him, on NPR radio.
    You are six feet tall 188 pounds you've practiced kenpo for three years, lets say high colored belt.
    Question:
    What appears as a teenager(careful he's a minor) comes at you, five foot four, no shirt you can see his ribs. You might out weigh him by 75 pounds. He's shooting punches like a boxer and is moving in fast.
    Careful, to much force and you go to jail. Even a smooth takedown and his family may take you to court, especially with all that nasty karate training.
    What do you do? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Kit

  2. #2
    universalsomething is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    66
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    That's a tough question. Duck and dodge until it's apparent you have no choice but to execute a quick hand sword to the side of the neck, and hope he goes down.

    Blue Belt
    A.K.K.I.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    It seems a smooth takedown with restraint until he calms down would be most appropriate.

    If you don't hurt the kids, but merely restrain, then I don't see how a lawsuit would hold up.

    You can't let the kid beat on you and you can't beat on the kid, so do a restraining move -- a come along, if you can.

    If not, duck and run and scream for help.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  4. The Following User Says Thank You to amylong For This Useful Post:

    KenpoChanger (07-05-2007)

  5. #4
    Hawke is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    55
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Difficult place to be in.

    Hands come up to calm down the student.

    Tell the student to sit back down.

    Warn the student to back off.

    When the students comes within kicking range.....front kick the shin....take control of the head for a quick take down.

    If possible restrain the student until authorities come to take over.

    Watch your six because he might want revenge and might be connected to gangs.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    SpoVaWA
    Posts
    4,387
    Thanks
    1,765
    Thanked 1,793 Times in 1,309 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Quote Originally Posted by universalsomething View Post
    That's a tough question. Duck and dodge until it's apparent you have no choice but to execute a quick hand sword to the side of the neck, and hope he goes down.
    Not

  7. #6
    universalsomething is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    66
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    Not
    This wouldn't work?

    Blue Belt
    A.K.K.I.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    SpoVaWA
    Posts
    4,387
    Thanks
    1,765
    Thanked 1,793 Times in 1,309 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Quote Originally Posted by universalsomething View Post
    This wouldn't work?
    If you are trying to make national headlines, I suppose it would.
    Sean

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to KenpoChanger For This Useful Post:

    Martin Seck (07-05-2007)

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,361
    Thanks
    841
    Thanked 480 Times in 291 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    First off I would think with several years of Kenpo training you could take several hits from a non trained fighter whom you outweighed by nearly 100 lbs.

    Put your hands up ... I like that ... use calming words and back up. Take a few glancing body shot if you have to, parry those to vital areas and wrap him up with your arms to check his weapons and contine to ask him to calm down.

    Unless he is on crack he will.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Martin Seck For This Useful Post:

    jdinca (07-06-2007)

  12. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Put your hand up, palm out and say, "No. No." slowly, but firmly. They have to listen.

    No, wait, that's my sister's idea of general parenting. lol. (she has no kids.. My four year old at the time, thought it was hysterical.)

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to amylong For This Useful Post:

    Martin Seck (07-05-2007),Takai (07-05-2007)

  14. #10
    Takai's Avatar
    Takai is offline
    KenpoTalk
    1st. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Roseburg, OR
    Posts
    855
    Thanks
    61
    Thanked 160 Times in 100 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    Put your hand up, palm out and say, "No. No." slowly, but firmly. They have to listen.

    No, wait, that's my sister's idea of general parenting. lol. (she has no kids.. My four year old at the time, thought it was hysterical.)

    --Amy
    It would work on my 3 year old but, then she just goes into a tizzy whenever she thinks she is getting in trouble.
    "Change is not necessary...Survival is not mandatory" - W. Edward Deming

    "When I hit....I hit the whole enchilada" - Master David Leung

  15. #11
    Black St1300 is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Purple Belt
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    York, PA
    Posts
    243
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 52 Times in 45 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Wouldn't the technique Sleeper work well in this context?

  16. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wichita, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    2,467
    Thanks
    2,019
    Thanked 1,277 Times in 709 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Quote Originally Posted by kit View Post
    The following question came to mind after I heard about a middle school student beating up on his teacher, breaking his neck, not killing him, on NPR radio.
    You are six feet tall 188 pounds you've practiced kenpo for three years, lets say high colored belt.
    Question:
    What appears as a teenager(careful he's a minor) comes at you, five foot four, no shirt you can see his ribs. You might out weigh him by 75 pounds. He's shooting punches like a boxer and is moving in fast.
    Careful, to much force and you go to jail. Even a smooth takedown and his family may take you to court, especially with all that nasty karate training.
    What do you do? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Kit
    Whats my role there? Am I the teacher? Am I defending someone else? Is he alone?

    I'm very used to being attacked by minors that I outweigh. I'd grab him and lock him up.
    It's what I usually do.

    Your Brother
    John
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ((if you use "FaceBook", look me up there by name))
    "Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted"
    ~ David Bly

  17. #13
    Kenpo-Owl is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Orange Belt
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Kansas City area
    Posts
    116
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 75 Times in 49 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    I really like Amy's response.

    Hands up, calm, authoritative voice attempting to calm the student down. Back away a few steps, and ensure that you are between that student and any other possible targets for his anger.

    Try talking him down.

    If he doesn't talk down, parry/block the first few shots, and watch for an opening for a take down/submission/lock. Avoid strikes and kicks...sets you up for lots of legal trouble later, and given the scenario (out mass the oppoenent, and out skilled), you should be able to remain defensive long enough to find an end to the situation before it reaches a point that you HAVE to strike.

    As far as the 'danger' of going to jail since you're a martial artist...it should be clear to everyone that you used minimal force needed to resolve the situation. Letting the student hit you would be stupid...so using minimal force to restrain the student until he calms down and/or help arrives is your only real option here.

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wichita, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    2,467
    Thanks
    2,019
    Thanked 1,277 Times in 709 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    Whats my role there? Am I the teacher? Am I defending someone else? Is he alone?

    I'm very used to being attacked by minors that I outweigh. I'd grab him and lock him up.
    It's what I usually do.

    Your Brother
    John

    wanted to clarify, because that could sound BAD. I'm a correctional officer that works with juveniles.
    I don't just go around pissing off kids....
    well.......not at random.

    Your Brother
    John
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ((if you use "FaceBook", look me up there by name))
    "Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted"
    ~ David Bly

  19. #15
    tiktok86's Avatar
    tiktok86 is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Orange Belt
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Martinez, CA
    Posts
    188
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    wanted to clarify, because that could sound BAD. I'm a correctional officer that works with juveniles.
    I don't just go around pissing off kids....
    well.......not at random.

    Your Brother
    John
    LOL I was actually about to ask...

    As you brought up earlier, the position you are in makes a big difference. Are you the teacher and in a classroom? Is the kid ADHD or similar? There are a million factors that will have an effect on how to best handle the situation, and I honestly think you can't predict how best to respond until you're in the situation. But worst-case, he surprises you by suddenly attacking in a rage? Take-down and restrain until they are calm, and call for help.
    All difficult things have their origin in that which is easy, and great things in that which is small. - Lao Tzu


  20. The Following User Says Thank You to tiktok86 For This Useful Post:

    Brother John (07-06-2007)

  21. #16
    John Brewer's Avatar
    John Brewer is offline Starting Over
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,942
    Thanks
    1,381
    Thanked 421 Times in 330 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    I think I'd have to go with the hands up calm voice and wait for an opening to control him. Good point about his buddies though. If you put him in a submission they would have a better chance to attack you.

  22. #17
    universalsomething is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    66
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    If you are trying to make national headlines, I suppose it would.
    Sean
    I should read more carefully.

    Blue Belt
    A.K.K.I.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to universalsomething For This Useful Post:

    KenpoChanger (07-06-2007)

  24. #18
    hongkongfooey is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Orange Belt
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    East Coast of the US
    Posts
    120
    Thanks
    31
    Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Bitch slap him into next week. What if he was a 6' football player but still a minor? He is attacking because he is trying to obtain dominance over you, and possible try to hurt you in the process. I would take my chances in court. If anyone thinks I am going to take a beating from a teenager like the teacher did, their nuts. He is attacking you, committing a crime against you, you can defend yourself. I'm not saying that you should knock the kid out, but a couple open handed slaps to the kids head should get the point across that he is over matched.

  25. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I will defend myself as humanely as possible until he is no longer a thread.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Rob Broad For This Useful Post:

    Martin Seck (07-06-2007)

  27. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,361
    Thanks
    841
    Thanked 480 Times in 291 Posts

    Default Re: when do you back off???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I will defend myself as humanely as possible until he is no longer a thread.
    KT on the brain, he means Threat

    Rob your working to hard brother, lol.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-04-2011, 03:06 PM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-05-2009, 08:47 PM
  3. Long Form 7
    By Rob Broad in forum Ed Parker Kenpo
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2006, 04:44 PM
  4. Long Form 4
    By Rob Broad in forum Ed Parker Kenpo
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2006, 03:43 PM