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Thread: grasping twigs (captured twigs)

  1. #1
    Latinvipers is offline
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    Smile grasping twigs (captured twigs)

    sorry i put grasping instead of (captured) but im having trouble with this one, i can perform the move, but when i practice it on someone (my brother) it dont seem to fall in place, my brother being bigger than me, grabs around me, i step aside with the hit to the groin, but that part dont line up, when i step to the side he's steping with me, but when i turn for the second part i break his arms away, his foot though is not undermine for the stomp, is there something im not doing right? thanks
    Last edited by Latinvipers; 06-22-2007 at 09:12 AM. Reason: wrong title
    It does not matter where the Martial art comes from. if it can help you defend yourself it is worth learning( Bruce Lee ) May the Force Be With You

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    Ray
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    Default Re: grasping twigs

    It would be best if you could show your teacher the problem and let him correct it in person.

    Failing that, if the attacker steps with you then you could try:
    a) anchoring down on his arm(s) when you counter-grab to see if it keeps him in place.
    b) step back (6:00 or 7:30) instead of to 9:00.
    c) act as though you're going to step to 3:00 with your right and then "unexpectedly" step to 9:00 with you left.

    If his right foot isn't under your right foot for the stomp, then you could put your right foot into a cat stance and slide it along the floor until you find his foot, then stomp with the heel--you get one chance along the path that your traveling.

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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Re: grasping twigs

    If he's got a strong hold with a solid base, you won't be able to "step" to the side, as you have well discovered. First, clarify with your instructor what exactly its used to defend against, as you may be trying a defense against something that warrants a different response. Its good that you try it on someone who has no idea what you are going to do, and any good brother helping you train is going to be an arsehole and not give you so much as an inch (which it sounds like he's doing, so thank him).

    As far as the attack, put some realism to it. Why would someone grab you like that? If you're a small woman, they may likely just try to pick you up so they can throw you in a black van. If you're a larger man, there is perhaps some other reason. No one will just grab and wait, there's a reason. That's what your instructor should nail down for you.

    cheers,

    Steven Brown
    UKF

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    Latinvipers is offline
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    Talking Re: grasping twigs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    It would be best if you could show your teacher the problem and let him correct it in person.

    Failing that, if the attacker steps with you then you could try:
    a) anchoring down on his arm(s) when you counter-grab to see if it keeps him in place.
    b) step back (6:00 or 7:30) instead of to 9:00.
    c) act as though you're going to step to 3:00 with your right and then "unexpectedly" step to 9:00 with you left.

    If his right foot isn't under your right foot for the stomp, then you could put your right foot into a cat stance and slide it along the floor until you find his foot, then stomp with the heel--you get one chance along the path that your traveling.
    it's a little confusing, the part with the stomp help alot though, i'll try it with my sensei when i see him thanks
    It does not matter where the Martial art comes from. if it can help you defend yourself it is worth learning( Bruce Lee ) May the Force Be With You

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    Latinvipers is offline
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    Default Re: grasping twigs

    Quote Originally Posted by bujuts View Post
    If he's got a strong hold with a solid base, you won't be able to "step" to the side, as you have well discovered. First, clarify with your instructor what exactly its used to defend against, as you may be trying a defense against something that warrants a different response. Its good that you try it on someone who has no idea what you are going to do, and any good brother helping you train is going to be an arsehole and not give you so much as an inch (which it sounds like he's doing, so thank him).

    As far as the attack, put some realism to it. Why would someone grab you like that? If you're a small woman, they may likely just try to pick you up so they can throw you in a black van. If you're a larger man, there is perhaps some other reason. No one will just grab and wait, there's a reason. That's what your instructor should nail down for you.

    cheers,

    Steven Brown
    UKF
    yea my instructor told me he would never use a move like this on someone, becuase like you said why? the only thing i could think of is maybe someone holding you, while someone else tries to hit you. thanks again
    It does not matter where the Martial art comes from. if it can help you defend yourself it is worth learning( Bruce Lee ) May the Force Be With You

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    Default Re: grasping twigs (captured twigs)

    Please note:
    I moved this thread from the "Technique of the Month" forum to the "Beginner's Corner" in order to fit the nature of the forum better and to get more replies from those wanting to assist answering a beginners questions.

    thanks

    Your Brother
    John

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    Default Re: grasping twigs (captured twigs)

    Quote Originally Posted by Latinvipers View Post
    ... i practice it on someone (my brother) it dont seem to fall in place, my brother being bigger than me, grabs around me, i step aside with the hit to the groin, but that part dont line up, when i step to the side he's steping with me, but when i turn for the second part i break his arms away, his foot though is not undermine for the stomp, is there something im not doing right? ... yea my instructor told me he would never use a move like this on someone, becuase like you said why?
    First off, these bear hug defenses are based on what the attacker gives you or forces you into. Captured Twigs assumes that you can or have to move in width first, then in depth. In reality, he's probably slamed you as he grabed and forced you to step out to the left. This is what your dummy has to give you to get the technique right. Later, other techs will address other initial movements.

    If the attacker is moving you left, he's going to step left to maintain his own base. You can feel his position as he moves (part of what this tech teaches is sensitivity, and that you know where his body parts are without looking because he's put together just like you). Angle your strike back to hit the groin. It's open if he steped.

    Don't look for the stomp, either. You know where his foot is without looking. If it's there, take it. If not, don't force it. It is much more important for you to get that foot back across the line with a good stance and good structure. You are trying to launch him backl as you turn into him with your shoulder, and that riht arm must remain in position from the strike. That ain't gonna happen if you break your structure trying to play footsie with him.

    A good variation is to left heel palm his right shoulder as you turn. Has good directional harmony and ballance, and really breaks his structure further and moves him back.

    As for not using this, I used to think the tech was questionable. But I once used the shoulder turn in a hard contact session against a Judoka. Made a believer out of me, and him!

    Dan C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

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  11. #8
    Latinvipers is offline
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    Cool Re: grasping twigs (captured twigs)

    man i wish there was a video, its kind of hard to see what you mean. when i do it with my instructure he does it so everything lines up. but when i do it with my brother, he bear hugs me so tight that when i side step, he's still bear hugging me, but i can break free as i continue.
    It does not matter where the Martial art comes from. if it can help you defend yourself it is worth learning( Bruce Lee ) May the Force Be With You

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    Default Re: grasping twigs (captured twigs)

    ... when i do it with my instructure he does it so everything lines up. but when i do it with my brother, he bear hugs me so tight that when i side step, he's still bear hugging me, but i can break free as i continue.
    Sounds like your instructor is giving you an easy attack so that you can learn the ideal phase tech "by the numbers", without having to worry about aplied forces and timing. Your brother is probably just doing what comes naturally with this attack. When the attack is done with intent, you'll be driven to the side and bent over, with his weight on you. But, everything in its' own time and place. Right now, you just need to concentrate on learning the base moves.

    It's a little early to introduce "what ifs" into the equation. But, if your dummy is not cooperating (he may just not know how, or not understand, if he's not a martial artist), you might have to get a little creative.
    In the attack I mentioned by the Judoka, he was very tight and drove me very quickly with intent to upend me and drive me into the matt. The realtive positioning was wrong for a groin strike, so my initial strike was a heel palm to the front of his hip joint to buckle it. Also gave me a point of reference and a bit of a brace as I was steping to regain my base. Point is, if the hammerfist doesn't land on target, try to use it where it does land. Then, after you've completed the tech (don't stop until done), go back and see if what you did worked, and why. Also, try to asses whether you could have moved different and pulled off the base tech.

    Hope this doesn't confuse you too much. Your priority at this point is to learn the base moves and get the tech down cold in the ideal phase. Talk with your instructor about this and get his input. This should give you some things to discuss, but go with whatever he tells you right now as he's responsible for your training.

    Dan C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

  13. #10
    Latinvipers is offline
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    Default Re: grasping twigs (captured twigs)

    what's people i did the move today in class, i was doing it a little wrong, so its better thanks for the help.
    It does not matter where the Martial art comes from. if it can help you defend yourself it is worth learning( Bruce Lee ) May the Force Be With You

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