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Thread: Outward handsword

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    Default Outward handsword

    I have seen some people excute an outward hand sword on a horizontal plane with the elbow high. I also have seen it excuted on an outward diagonial plane with the elbow anchored closer to the body.

    Any thoughts on the 2 methods of excution?

    Thanks

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    I was taught to always keep the elbow anchored, I wouldn't say on a horizontal plane more of a downward angle and not that close to the body.

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I have seen some people excute an outward hand sword on a horizontal plane with the elbow high. I also have seen it excuted on an outward diagonial plane with the elbow anchored closer to the body.

    Any thoughts on the 2 methods of excution?

    Thanks

    Mr. Marshall,

    This is a very good question but I believe that it is in some ways a trick question ... LOL.

    We all know that the preferred method is to use bracing angles and to keep the elbows anchored. Not that a horizontal outward hand sword would lack a degree of effect. But the effects are much more compounded and you better cover yourself from any counters from your opponent by employing two of the best concepts of AK.

    Bracing Angles and Anchoring.

    Do I pass your test ... LOL .. at least so far.

    Your brother in the Journey,
    Greg Hilderbrand
    A.K.K.I.

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    I think they both have their applications. I learned the horizontal/vertical methods in my previous training, and the diagonal angle with elbow held close is a method that I didn't learn until I started kenpo last year. In my opinion the latter does seem to be a better method.
    "Your kung fu's no good..."
    *Warrior, Scholar*

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by G. Hilderbrand View Post
    Mr. Marshall,

    This is a very good question but I believe that it is in some ways a trick question ... LOL.

    We all know that the preferred method is to use bracing angles and to keep the elbows anchored. Not that a horizontal outward hand sword would lack a degree of effect. But the effects are much more compounded and you better cover yourself from any counters from your opponent by employing two of the best concepts of AK.

    Bracing Angles and Anchoring.

    Do I pass your test ... LOL .. at least so far.

    Your brother in the Journey,
    Greg Hilderbrand
    A.K.K.I.

    You are very wise grasshopper.
    What about the anytomical structral alingment of the body, and how it relates to the directional harmony, and back up mass?

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I have seen some people excute an outward hand sword on a horizontal plane with the elbow high. I also have seen it excuted on an outward diagonial plane with the elbow anchored closer to the body.

    Any thoughts on the 2 methods of excution?

    Thanks
    Not enough info.........
    in the air,
    on a person,
    what is the target,
    part of a technique,
    on the ground,
    will you follow up with a collasping elbow,
    etc...
    Everything depends on your opponent.
    What have I learned from this???

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo-Sloth View Post
    Not enough info.........
    in the air,
    on a person,
    what is the target,
    part of a technique,
    on the ground,
    will you follow up with a collasping elbow,
    etc...
    Everything depends on your opponent.
    Fair enough
    In the air
    and on a person standing up
    the target is the neck, dont ask what part of the neck, thats your insight to teach us.
    Please share your thoughts

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    You are very wise grasshopper.
    What about the anytomical structral alingment of the body, and how it relates to the directional harmony, and back up mass?
    OUCH ... did I forget to mention those concepts as well.

    I am going to have to throw myself at the mercy of the court here ... LOL.

    Lets face it that is how we roll. One good concept opens the door to many more.

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Well in that case,
    Mr. Hilderbrand answered
    it better than I ever could.
    What have I learned from this???

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo-Sloth View Post
    Well in that case,
    Mr. Hilderbrand answered
    it better than I ever could.
    Thats not the point. Please share your insight with us.
    I am especially intrestead in your perspective of the collapsing elbow, and the point of reference that you use as the pivot point for the elbow.

    Thanks
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Fair enough
    In the air
    and on a person standing up
    the target is the neck, dont ask what part of the neck, thats your insight to teach us.
    Please share your thoughts
    I would not, could not in the air; I would not could not anywhere
    I would not on someone standing up, with a handsword cuff the pup
    I would not chop or hack in a fight, please don't ask me, it's just not right.

    A Horse, a dog, a cat, a mouse; I hate this bed, I hate this house.


    Sorry. Nursing a bit of a concussion from training; makes me...um...you know.

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    My question is always...Snapping, thrusting, or following through?

    There is a stroke, similar to that used in Battojutsu to simulate chopping off a head with a backhand stroke while practicing on soaked tatami, that requires a different path, and a different ending point. You strike THROUGH the neck, not AT it. Ending position of the striking hand is at the side and slightly behind you, similar to the end position of the rear underhand palm-heel/rakes from Finger Set. It allows you to set your entire person to the hack, rather than a speedy little limb.

    "Off with his head!" -- Queen of Hearts.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    My question is always...Snapping, thrusting, or following through?

    There is a stroke, similar to that used in Battojutsu to simulate chopping off a head with a backhand stroke while practicing on soaked tatami, that requires a different path, and a different ending point. You strike THROUGH the neck, not AT it. Ending position of the striking hand is at the side and slightly behind you, similar to the end position of the rear underhand palm-heel/rakes from Finger Set. It allows you to set your entire person to the hack, rather than a speedy little limb.

    "Off with his head!" -- Queen of Hearts.
    Sweeeeeeeet
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Fair enough
    In the air
    and on a person standing up
    the target is the neck, dont ask what part of the neck, thats your insight to teach us.
    Please share your thoughts
    I see your point,
    the situation is irrevalant, there isn't a time
    when you wouldn't anchor your elbow
    during the execution of an Outward Handsword.
    What have I learned from this???

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    I would not, could not in the air; I would not could not anywhere
    I would not on someone standing up, with a handsword cuff the pup
    I would not chop or hack in a fight, please don't ask me, it's just not right.

    A Horse, a dog, a cat, a mouse; I hate this bed, I hate this house.


    Sorry. Nursing a bit of a concussion from training; makes me...um...you know.

    D.
    What have I learned from this???

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I have seen some people excute an outward hand sword on a horizontal plane with the elbow high. I also have seen it excuted on an outward diagonial plane with the elbow anchored closer to the body.

    Any thoughts on the 2 methods of excution?

    Thanks
    Targeting.
    ie. contouring.
    Height differences.
    Different starting positions.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by G. Hilderbrand View Post
    We all know that the preferred method is to use bracing angles and to keep the elbows anchored.
    I don't know that.
    Nor do I believe that.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo-Sloth View Post
    Not enough info.........
    in the air,
    on a person,
    what is the target,
    part of a technique,
    on the ground,
    will you follow up with a collasping elbow,
    etc...
    Everything depends on your opponent.
    Yep.

    The original had to have been a trick question BECAUSE it did NOT explain the situation, the circumstances....

    With that many variables, it's time to go out to dinner and hopefully when we come back it is specific enough to really know the circumstances.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Fair enough
    In the air
    and on a person standing up
    the target is the neck, dont ask what part of the neck, thats your insight to teach us.
    Please share your thoughts
    Well,

    The neck is 360 degrees and has targets all around it.

    And accessing those targets can be done many different ways with movements of the body, the feet, the shifting and the inwards and the outwards.

    Maybe 65 or more different ways, even to the "Killing Blow" used by Choki Motobu against the HUGE Russian.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Outward handsword

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    My question is always...Snapping, thrusting, or following through?

    There is a stroke, similar to that used in Battojutsu to simulate chopping off a head with a backhand stroke while practicing on soaked tatami, that requires a different path, and a different ending point. You strike THROUGH the neck, not AT it. Ending position of the striking hand is at the side and slightly behind you, similar to the end position of the rear underhand palm-heel/rakes from Finger Set. It allows you to set your entire person to the hack, rather than a speedy little limb.

    "Off with his head!" -- Queen of Hearts.

    Gees Dave,

    That would hurt him. And that wouldn't be fair, would it!

    Gosh!

    A body MASS strike with a chop. It sounds like the old days.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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