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Thread: How to be a good uke??

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    Question How to be a good uke??

    We practice a technique hundreds of times at home and in the dojo, but we only practice being a uke in the dojo.
    When I apply a technique, I try to make good initial contact then strike safely to cause the expected response in my uke.
    When I'm a uke it's not as easy, there are many questions:


    • How hard do you attack?
    • Do you attack harder as your training partner gets better?
    • Do you simulate a response or make your training partner force a response?
    • Do you throw in a slightly different response after so many times?

    I believe my uke does me a disservice if he doesn't attack as someone would on the street (after I've learned the ideal phase of course). I think you should train with a measure of reality, but at the same time injury doesn't benefit anyone. Do you ever know "how hard to hit"?

    What have I learned from this???

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo-Sloth
    Do you ever know "how hard to hit"?
    Can I say "Yes" without an easy explaination? I think its a matter of knowing who you're working with. If Im teaching, when I need an uke or demonstrate on a student, I def. bring down the intensity until I feel they can handle it. If its an upper belt, I still try to gauge how they'll handle it. There's even some black belts I know who can't handle it too intense - I will always have to go slow for them. And then there's the ones who were MY instructors when I was training...them I hit harder

    So in surmise...gauge the person youre working with. Start on low end...if Its easier to raise your "scale" from a lower starting point than to come out too intense when your uke/assistant/student can't handle it. It makes it easier for someone to get hurt

    YMMV, of course
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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??


    How hard do you attack?

    It depends on who my partner is. If he/she is a white or yellow belt I'm not going to attack with the same intensity that I would when working with students at the brown or black-belt levels. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. I know advanced students that don't like hard contact. On the other hand we've got a yellow-belt that used to compete in Muay-Thai so he's used to a litte more intensity.

    Do you attack harder as your training partner gets better?

    Generally yes, however, there are exceptions as I mentioned above.

    Do you simulate a response or make your training partner force a response?

    Generally when working with beginners, I will simulate the responce to give them a feel for what is going on. A lot of beginners are not comfortable with even touching their targets (throat, groin, etc.) so I'm not going to expect them to thump & bump like brown and black belts. As long as they at least execute the techniques with accuracy, I'll be a "good dummy." With intermediate and advanced students I will, at times, force them to make the tech. work. In other words, I'm not gonna give it to ya, I'll stand there 'till you pop me a little.

    Do you throw in a slightly different response after so many times?

    Again, it depends on the context of the training and the skill of the student. If we're teaching tech's in the Ideal Phase to a beginner I tend to keep the attacks "by the book." When dealing with intermediate or advanced students; or when playing with "what if's" we'll change it up a little.
    The test: "Will this work so that I can use it instinctively in vital combat against an opponent who is determined to prevent me from doing so, and who is striving to eliminate me by fair means or foul?" ~ Col. Rex Applegate

    Matt K.

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    [QUOTE=Kenpo-Sloth]

    How hard do you attack?


    Depends on the person. IMO, when you're learning a tech. for the first time, it should always be done slow. Once it is understood, speed can be added. Again, it depends on the person. Is it a White belt or a Black Belt.
    • Do you attack harder as your training partner gets better?
    Yes! As your training moves along, you always want to incorporate that element of aliveness and realism. Putting on a padded glove, and throwing the punch trying to hit the person, is going to be much better than stopping 5 in. away from him. If you get hit, at least the glove is there for some protection. Its better to make the mistake in the dojo than on the street!!

    • Do you simulate a response or make your training partner force a response?
    The person should understand the common reactions. Of course, if you really hit someone in the eye to get "that response" you're gonna run out of training partners!! You do eventually want to build up to being able to move the person rather than have them move for you.

    • Do you throw in a slightly different response after so many times?
    You may run into someone who does not respond in a fashion that you're used to seeing. This is where knowing how to adapt and keep moving comes into play.


    Mike

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    To be the best Uke possible do not be a statue! Don't practice stone statue kenpo. I realize when learning a technique you don't want to overwhelm the person. However, once the person has a feel for the Ideal phase of a technique don't just stand there and let them beat on you, react and respond to the strikes make them improvise and adapt. You wouldn't believe the number of advanced belts that freeze mid technique when you throw another strike in. (I am still guilty of that).
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Quote Originally Posted by dubljay
    To be the best Uke possible do not be a statue! Don't practice stone statue kenpo. I realize when learning a technique you don't want to overwhelm the person. However, once the person has a feel for the Ideal phase of a technique don't just stand there and let them beat on you, react and respond to the strikes make them improvise and adapt. You wouldn't believe the number of advanced belts that freeze mid technique when you throw another strike in. (I am still guilty of that).
    This brings up a great point with regard to performing tech's in the "what if" phase. On my green belt test, the first time I tested in front of the head-instructor; he told the attacker to throw an extra punch at some point in the techniques. At first it was rather difficult to adjust. However, It gave me a new appreciation for the way the techniques work with regard to the way that those extra strikes can be dealt with by simply altering the application of the moves already found in the technique-"strikes are blocks, blocks are strikes." I really enjoy these types of drills because they help to move you toward a place where you become more spontaneous.
    The test: "Will this work so that I can use it instinctively in vital combat against an opponent who is determined to prevent me from doing so, and who is striving to eliminate me by fair means or foul?" ~ Col. Rex Applegate

    Matt K.

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Quote Originally Posted by kenpotex
    This brings up a great point with regard to performing tech's in the "what if" phase. On my green belt test, the first time I tested in front of the head-instructor; he told the attacker to throw an extra punch at some point in the techniques. At first it was rather difficult to adjust. However, It gave me a new appreciation for the way the techniques work with regard to the way that those extra strikes can be dealt with by simply altering the application of the moves already found in the technique-"strikes are blocks, blocks are strikes." I really enjoy these types of drills because they help to move you toward a place where you become more spontaneous.
    I have had simmilar experiences. It was shortly before I tested for my green belt when working techniques with one of the black belts. I started out doing Circles of Protection, but the guy I was working with noticed I had a habit of droping my head a bit, so he just wrapped me up into a headlock. I was caught off guard for a second (durring which I was being pulled around the room by my head) before I had the brilliant idea of doing Locking Horns.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Excellent advice,
    thanks to all that replied!!
    What have I learned from this???

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    This is a great topic that needs to be revisited.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    I think there is a pretty decent amount of skill that you increase when you learn how to uke (dummy up ). Besides learning technique effectiveness and anatomical response.

    Kinetic Energy (all energy for that matter) cannot be destroyed. So if my foot is coming at your leg with a side kick and you stand in resistance to it, my kick is going to win. But if you learn to match the kinetic energy coming at you in such a way you can transfer it's energy and you can reduce the amount of impact it has if it's coming in contact with you. When a side kick is coming at your leg learn to go with it and you will see how even a powerful kick can be somewhat nullified by how you anticipate the kinetic energy and refuse to resist it.
    When I dummy up for Master Tatum, granted I'm relying on his extreme control, I'm also not going to resist anything coming at me. Cuz wow. When he throws a side kick at my leg you better believe i'm going to try to match it by going with it as not to take the full force of it. Just too bad my face got in the way one day.

    Example: Hold your left palm out and take your right hand and hammer it into your left palm w/out moving your left from it's place- resist the force pushing it down. Now do it again, w/out resistance. YOu'll see that your hand does not absorb the same amount of energy when you stop resisting as it does when you do.
    Example2: Take hardback book and toss it up in the air and try to catch it by letting it fall hard onto your hand. Now toss the book up and bring your hand up to match the books speed as it falls and make contact going w/ the fall and gradually bring it into control. Big difference.
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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Quote Originally Posted by cameypsaromatis
    I think there is a pretty decent amount of skill that you increase when you learn how to uke (dummy up ). Besides learning technique effectiveness and anatomical response.

    Kinetic Energy (all energy for that matter) cannot be destroyed. So if my foot is coming at your leg with a side kick and you stand in resistance to it, my kick is going to win. But if you learn to match the kinetic energy coming at you in such a way you can transfer it's energy and you can reduce the amount of impact it has if it's coming in contact with you. When a side kick is coming at your leg learn to go with it and you will see how even a powerful kick can be somewhat nullified by how you anticipate the kinetic energy and refuse to resist it.
    When I dummy up for Master Tatum, granted I'm relying on his extreme control, I'm also not going to resist anything coming at me. Cuz wow. When he throws a side kick at my leg you better believe i'm going to try to match it by going with it as not to take the full force of it. Just too bad my face got in the way one day.

    Example: Hold your left palm out and take your right hand and hammer it into your left palm w/out moving your left from it's place- resist the force pushing it down. Now do it again, w/out resistance. YOu'll see that your hand does not absorb the same amount of energy when you stop resisting as it does when you do.
    Example2: Take hardback book and toss it up in the air and try to catch it by letting it fall hard onto your hand. Now toss the book up and bring your hand up to match the books speed as it falls and make contact going w/ the fall and gradually bring it into control. Big difference.
    Great post! We do the "pass it down" drill sometimes. Probably not enough though, but it teaches you to 'fold' when struck. When you "go with the flow" so to speak you decrease the force of impact. It's that very idea that is behind the principle of creating a 'backstop', as when executing an elbow sandwich. When you provide a backstop for your strike the target takes the full brunt of the force from the strike.

    But in regards to being an uki, it helps if you know how to fold and/or move with the force of a strike. This habit can carry over into the street also and could be the difference between you being just stunned or knocked out!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    I firmly believe that the way to build a good uoke is what we call rising intensity. Part of the reason someone needs to uke well is so that the person working the techniques can get better. I also believe that as a person progresses they need to be able to take harder and harder shots. God forbid they every have to defend themselves and they have enver been really hit in training. I once had one of my brown belts come to me and tell me he had been attacked after school. I asked a couple of other people what happened (to verify his story that he didn't start it). The other people told me that when the local bully hit him he laughed at him and told him he got hit harder by girls everyday, right before he levelled the guy.
    Just because you do something one way, does not mean that everyone else does it that way, or that it is even the correct way.

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Bumpity bump. Do you believe that this thread and the "How did you learn how to get hit?" can be considered integral to one another?
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca View Post
    Bumpity bump. Do you believe that this thread and the "How did you learn how to get hit?" can be considered integral to one another?
    Yup! Knowing what actaully happens to body when it is hit a certain way, better teaches you to execute (and test) your techniques. Many times a person just mimics the reaction that was taught to them when they first learned the technique. That is why I believe the attack and the reaction should to be taught first (or at least in conjunction).
    "You can't account for everything, but you should account for the reasonably probable. Unfortunately for the unknowledgeable, those never ending 'what if's' will choke your thought process to death with useless information." - Doc

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Quote Originally Posted by HKphooey View Post
    Yup! Knowing what actaully happens to body when it is hit a certain way, better teaches you to execute (and test) your techniques. Many times a person just mimics the reaction that was taught to them when they first learned the technique. That is why I believe the attack and the reaction should to be taught first (or at least in conjunction).
    Attack without reaction is like Sonny without Cher. When I watch the demo videos I post from our system, I typically am critiquing the dummy. If it's done right, there should be no need for the "attackee" to hold back at all because the dummy has learned how to react and take the strike. And not every demo goes according to the plan. Sometimes a different strike, or a strike from an unexpected direction comes your way. You either react, or you get hit.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Necro-posting....I duz it...

    That being said, a technique that I picked up somewhere (I wish that I remembered where) to help new uke's/beginners ramp up their level for their partner involves adjusting the attack. Lets say that the attack is a punch to the face - Instead of using a closed fist to the face, in order to help them engage and not worry as much about hurting their partner I have them reach for their partner's hair with their palm. While this does cause the attack to move upward slightly, it helps them get over the fear of hitting their dojo friend. It is easier to then move to actually hitting them because the trust is there that the defender can and will stop it.

    This isn't a perfect solution, but I've had a lot of sucess with it as a transition from slow don't-want-to-hurt-them attacks to they-better-block-it-or-else attacks.

    Necro-post complete
    "If a person prefers to do something another way, and he is happy with his results, no one can tell him he's wrong" Ed Parker, as quoted by Doc

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    Default Re: How to be a good uke??

    Quote Originally Posted by stone_dragone View Post
    Necro-posting....I duz it...

    That being said, a technique that I picked up somewhere (I wish that I remembered where) to help new uke's/beginners ramp up their level for their partner involves adjusting the attack. Lets say that the attack is a punch to the face - Instead of using a closed fist to the face, in order to help them engage and not worry as much about hurting their partner I have them reach for their partner's hair with their palm. While this does cause the attack to move upward slightly, it helps them get over the fear of hitting their dojo friend. It is easier to then move to actually hitting them because the trust is there that the defender can and will stop it.

    This isn't a perfect solution, but I've had a lot of sucess with it as a transition from slow don't-want-to-hurt-them attacks to they-better-block-it-or-else attacks.

    Necro-post complete
    This is a good thread to necro. I like your method.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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