Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 35

Thread: Power

  1. #1
    KenpoCooper is offline
    KenpoTalk
    White Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Macon, GA
    Posts
    17
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Power

    The speed and power of higher ranking belts can be an awsome sight. However, what part of training develops that speed and power? Does it come from working a heavy bag or going through forms over and over again? It is my assumption that if my self defense is to be effective, then my blows to the enemy must be powerful, especially if the guy is rather large. Any thoughts?

    GT

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,361
    Thanks
    841
    Thanked 480 Times in 291 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Speed = Power

    If I throw a bullet with my own force at someone it will bounce off. If I shoot it out of a gun at a much faster speed it goes right through them.

    Part of speed development comes from inside and desire. Most people focus on the physical development of the speed and do not think about the mental part of its development.

    Good topic!

    Salute,
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    There are 3 principles of power, Torque, Back Up Mass, and Marriage of Gravity. The upper belts have adopted these principle into every action and that is what makes there techniques so crisp, clean, and powerful.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, ON
    Posts
    1,601
    Thanks
    64
    Thanked 209 Times in 134 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    The goal of a Kenpoist should not be speed. It's precision. Too often Kenpo practitioners learn a new technique and try to do it as fast as they can over and over, without a proper understanding of the executed basics and targets.

    Speed is merely a by-product that comes from proper training.

    Quick to learn, quick to forget.

    Slow to learn, slow to forget.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


  5. #5
    MLKKA is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. White Belt
    AKI Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    If all of your basics are what they should be, and you need to use your skill in a real situation, then there are two mental aspects to remember. Go to your primal state and believe in the technique. I tell my
    students to try and break everything we hit. There are a lot of people who can go fast and some who can hit hard. There are not as many who can do both. Basics and repitition.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    2,270
    Thanks
    237
    Thanked 113 Times in 95 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Quote Originally Posted by GTKenpo
    The speed and power of higher ranking belts can be an awsome sight. However, what part of training develops that speed and power? Does it come from working a heavy bag or going through forms over and over again? It is my assumption that if my self defense is to be effective, then my blows to the enemy must be powerful, especially if the guy is rather large. Any thoughts?

    GT
    Power does come from liftingweights and working on the bag. Speed comes from timing. It took me forever to get my timing down but since I have gone back to the begining and started really thinking about what the techniques are trying to tell you, figuring out where the power is coming from (marriage of gravity, etc.), and how to really put things together so that they are not 1 2 3 they are now 1 and 2 and so forth.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Quote Originally Posted by MLKKA
    If all of your basics are what they should be, and you need to use your skill in a real situation, then there are two mental aspects to remember. Go to your primal state and believe in the technique. I tell my
    students to try and break everything we hit. There are a lot of people who can go fast and some who can hit hard. There are not as many who can do both. Basics and repitition.
    Go to your primal state? As in, kill or be killed mentality?

    I would agree that doubt can make even the best technique fail. I hadn't thought of it like that before, but if you just feel you're going through the motions, then the technique won't work.

    Having never been in a real fight, it's harder for me to realize that each of those strikes will have an impact -- that they matter and can save me. I've been thinking more about that, like with Twirling Hammers. A hard kidney strike will drop someone like a rock. Even on Delayed Sword, a block to the bicep with intention, will likely make the oppoent's arm go limp, a kick to the groin is likely to stop all their motion and a chop to the throat will leave them gasping for air. So it's not really block, kick, chop.

    More to think about.

    I like your answer and this is a great topic.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  8. #8
    MJS
    MJS is offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Cromwell, CT
    Posts
    1,475
    Thanks
    818
    Thanked 1,132 Times in 599 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Quote Originally Posted by GTKenpo
    The speed and power of higher ranking belts can be an awsome sight. However, what part of training develops that speed and power? Does it come from working a heavy bag or going through forms over and over again? It is my assumption that if my self defense is to be effective, then my blows to the enemy must be powerful, especially if the guy is rather large. Any thoughts?

    GT
    IMHO, speed will come with time. Starting off slow, getting familiar with the movements, you'll eventually find yourself getting quicker. This is what I'd work on in the beginning. As for the power...that will also come from proper body movement, footwork, Marriage of Gravity, etc.Mike

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, ON
    Posts
    1,601
    Thanks
    64
    Thanked 209 Times in 134 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Quote Originally Posted by MJS
    IMHO, speed will come with time. Starting off slow, getting familiar with the movements, you'll eventually find yourself getting quicker. This is what I'd work on in the beginning. As for the power...that will also come from proper body movement, footwork, Marriage of Gravity, etc.Mike
    My point exactly.

    Well put Mike.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


  10. #10
    Alleydog is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Orange Belt
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Westminster, MD
    Posts
    102
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Seabrook,

    Speed, power, precision, and execution with all the principles should be the goal of the kenpo student.

    I understand what you’re saying about students rushing to do a new technique fast because they want the speed of the upper belts and fail to execut the basics properly.

    Speed or more correctly acceleration is part of the power equation. When combined with practiced mechanics, proficient timing and proper structure, “speed” is part of what makes the execution of the techniques exploded. MikeG.

    Always practice perfection on the mat because your worse in training will be your best on the street.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Muscle memory is a major key in being quick with your techniques. By doing things over and over, and over again you build muscle memory.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    2,270
    Thanks
    237
    Thanked 113 Times in 95 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    Muscle memory is a major key in being quick with your techniques. By doing things over and over, and over again you build muscle memory.
    This is one of the moajor problems with beginners. They do not practice their stuff enough so 1. they forget how to do it and 2. do not remember which name and attack go with which. You can not go through karate especially Kenpo just dilly dodling with this you must practice practice practice. You basics in the beginining effect you in the future. If your basics are bad you will still be bad at higher levels of belts. I hate going to tests and seeing these guys just "half a** it." You must practice to be good you can not expect to learn or advance in th martial arts without practicing it and making it muscle memory.

    I am using you as a general statement I am not saying anyone in particular.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    True power is not something that's going to be readily generated by beginners.

    Marriage of gravity is essential for power. Having your body in tune with itself, through muscle memory, and getting all the parts to work synchronistically, combined with intention and certainty (believing in the technique and your ability to execute it), will generate power.

    I guess that's why we, as instructors, need to set a good example and practice our butts off ourselves.

    Practice what we preach and all that.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, ON
    Posts
    1,601
    Thanks
    64
    Thanked 209 Times in 134 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleydog
    Seabrook,

    Speed, power, precision, and execution with all the principles should be the goal of the kenpo student.
    Absolutely true. However, not in the order that you stated. I would put precision first, and then power and speed will come.

    Like I stated, too many Kenpoists (or martial artists from any style for that matter) try to do things way too fast too early. The end product is often sloppy technique.

    Slow to learn, slow to forget. Fast to learn, fast to forget.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, ON
    Posts
    1,601
    Thanks
    64
    Thanked 209 Times in 134 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    Muscle memory is a major key in being quick with your techniques. By doing things over and over, and over again you build muscle memory.
    Agreed 100% Rob.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,361
    Thanks
    841
    Thanked 480 Times in 291 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Common Kenpo Power Principals:

    Marriage of Gravity
    We have it whenever we sink or when all our force is going down. It is essentially Back up mass on a vertical plane.

    Torque
    Provides more power. To get torque, something must twist or rotate.

    Back-up Mass
    Putting your entire body into a move. We have back up mass whenever we’re moving in a straight line. This puts your entire body into a particular movement. Back up Mass is essentially Marriage of Gravity on a horizontal plane.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    6,026
    Thanks
    1,199
    Thanked 1,520 Times in 909 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Proper Body Mechanics
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dundalk Md
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    197
    Thanked 977 Times in 612 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    power or force can be easily explained... F= ma in Newton's second law of motion.

    Mass, body mass, or backup mass in Kenpo is the use of your entire body in a strike. this requires proper footwork, body position, and marrage of gravity.

    Acceleration or speed is derived by a number of methods in Kenpo including torque, body conditioning, marriage of gravidy or guided collision, repition, and somethign few people think about but keeping your body relaxed.

    Also in repeated strikes.. I was contemplating the universal symbol the other week and found that strikes returning to a guard position and then flowing out from our body to strike again move not in a liniar fashion but rather in a very tight elipse.. same with our bodies when we turn to advance or change direction. Ultimatly finding that there are infact very few truely liniar moves.
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dundalk Md
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    197
    Thanked 977 Times in 612 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Ohhh yea... also... what you strike with determins power... all 4 knuckles of your fist = aproximatly 8 square inchs.. thus F/8=Fpsi as opposed to striking with your two knuckles which for me is aproximatly 2 sqare inches thus F/2=Fpsi
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    1,383
    Thanks
    1,964
    Thanked 473 Times in 341 Posts

    Default Re: Power

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny
    power or force can be easily explained... F= ma in Newton's second law of motion.

    Mass, body mass, or backup mass in Kenpo is the use of your entire body in a strike. this requires proper footwork, body position, and marrage of gravity.

    Acceleration or speed is derived by a number of methods in Kenpo including torque, body conditioning, marriage of gravidy or guided collision, repition, and somethign few people think about but keeping your body relaxed.

    Also in repeated strikes.. I was contemplating the universal symbol the other week and found that strikes returning to a guard position and then flowing out from our body to strike again move not in a liniar fashion but rather in a very tight elipse.. same with our bodies when we turn to advance or change direction. Ultimatly finding that there are infact very few truely liniar moves.
    Great post!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Principle of the Month (Jan/Feb 06) - Torque
    By Hunter in forum Technique of the Month
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-08-2010, 04:46 PM
  2. Speed Striking
    By parkerkarate in forum Parkers Kenpo (EPAK) - General
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 04-27-2006, 03:36 PM
  3. Basics- Power Principles
    By dubljay in forum Parkers Kenpo (EPAK) - General
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-24-2006, 11:29 PM
  4. Knowledge is power..right?
    By Celtic_Crippler in forum Suggestion Box
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-26-2005, 09:02 AM
  5. Body Building Kenpoists??
    By Brother John in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 09-29-2005, 12:01 PM