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Thread: Timing Drills

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    Default Timing Drills

    Hello!

    Hope you don't mind if I start a thread on your lineage page.

    I found the initial timing drill to be very useful. The drill that I learned absolutely transformed Alternating Maces/Destroying Wedge. Alternating Maces had always been fast and powerful, but something clicked when I applied the drill to it. I appreciate that. I've been applying this drill to similar techniques and have found the results to be beneficial.

    Anyway, I recall seeing (11 yrs ago-ish) a home-video of one of Master Mill's seminars. In this seminar, he was expounding on shielding hammer. I remember the movement that he was teaching was derived from shielding hammer: left and right, staggered and tailored. The movement that he taught then is the timing drill that I learned a couple of months ago. I have begun to wonder if MM actually created the drills from SGM Parker's Kenpo techniques. Recently, I have been trying to extract a useful drill from snapping twig (left and right, staggered and altered). It really is kind of fun.

    I was wondering if anyone here has tried to extract timing drills from 'old' Kenpo techniques. Have you ever gone back through your favorite 'old' techniques (you know, the ones that really smoke) and tried to extract their timing?

    FYI: I'm probably going to remain focused on the 'old' way of doing things, but I have a great appreciation for the 'new' way.

    I look forward to your response.


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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Quote Originally Posted by Theban_Legion

    I found the initial timing drill to be very useful. The drill that I learned absolutely transformed Alternating Maces/Destroying Wedge. Alternating Maces had always been fast and powerful, but something clicked when I applied the drill to it. I appreciate that. I've been applying this drill to similar techniques and have found the results to be beneficial.

    Of course, sword[s] of fury is a given.

    Recently, I have been trying to extract a useful drill from snapping twig (left and right, staggered and altered). It really is kind of fun.
    I was wondering if anyone here has tried to extract timing drills from 'old' Kenpo techniques. Have you ever gone back through your favorite 'old' techniques (you know, the ones that really smoke) and tried to extract their timing?
    obviously the timing of a given tech is easily altered by the practitioner. I was referring to finding an awesome timing for a given tech and the extracting it as a drill; then you could easily import the timing to another tech.

    [edit]
    Last edited by KenpoEMT; 07-25-2005 at 02:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    as a heads up, can you NOT use red colour for your font - its very hard to read against the dark blue forum template. Choosing a lighter colour would be best

    Thank you
    Susan A. Spann

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyu
    as a heads up, can you NOT use red colour for your font - its very hard to read against the dark blue forum template. Choosing a lighter colour would be best

    Thank you
    Well put

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    sorry about that I've got a dang good LCD screen. Red on my screen is crystal clear...
    Oh well, we'll try black instead. I'd go back through and edit except I have already Quoted myself, so the edit [function] is locked....
    [also, if you have trouble reading a font color, just left click and highlight the entire section. This will change the color for as long as the section is selected. cheers]


    [edit]
    Last edited by KenpoEMT; 07-25-2005 at 05:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    I have not attempted to extract but I have put the AKKI timing drills into my old techniques. One favorite is showing Clutching Feathers the IKKA way that I learned it anyway, then how I'd do it now as an AKKI'er. I actually stumbled onto this activity on accident trying to remember some of my old techniques working out with an IKKA student. Everything I did was AKKI-ized which I found pretty striking. It was a pretty neat moment in my training that I realized I had internalized some of the AKKI specific techniques.

    Good luck with your training!
    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Quote Originally Posted by cloak13
    I have not attempted to extract but I have put the AKKI timing drills into my old techniques. One favorite is showing Clutching Feathers the IKKA way that I learned it anyway, then how I'd do it now as an AKKI'er. I actually stumbled onto this activity on accident trying to remember some of my old techniques working out with an IKKA student. Everything I did was AKKI-ized which I found pretty striking. It was a pretty neat moment in my training that I realized I had internalized some of the AKKI specific techniques.
    That's awesome!
    Tell me, have you found training with plyometrics to be truly beneficial to your drills? I've read more than one post from individuals swearing by plyometrics, and I've seen a few who say that the exercises must be applied in a skill specific manner if any increase in speed and agility is to be realized.
    I'm probably going to check into it one way or another; I just wanted to hear from the "horse's mouth," so to speak.

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Quote Originally Posted by Theban_Legion
    That's awesome!
    Tell me, have you found training with plyometrics to be truly beneficial to your drills? I've read more than one post from individuals swearing by plyometrics, and I've seen a few who say that the exercises must be applied in a skill specific manner if any increase in speed and agility is to be realized.
    I'm probably going to check into it one way or another; I just wanted to hear from the "horse's mouth," so to speak.
    I can not say how much plyometrics have benefitted me. Not considering Kenpo at all, I feel 100 times better, my cardio is insane compared to what it use to be, and all the pain relating to lifting weights is gone. Now talking Kenpo I feel at least twice as fast as I was, I've been told I'm hitting a lot harder, and I can easily run through all my forms with a very high intensity without getting fatigued.

    I would recommend them to anyone. The exercises I've found that I do the most are Jumping Squats, Jumping/Springing Pushups, Hindu Pushups, ABS, ABS, ABS!!!! The stronger your core muscles the harder you hit. And in the end I'd rather have my inward block drop the guy screaming than have to hit them 50 times.

    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Quote Originally Posted by cloak13
    I can not say how much plyometrics have benefitted me. Not considering Kenpo at all, I feel 100 times better, my cardio is insane compared to what it use to be, and all the pain relating to lifting weights is gone. Now talking Kenpo I feel at least twice as fast as I was, I've been told I'm hitting a lot harder, and I can easily run through all my forms with a very high intensity without getting fatigued.

    I would recommend them to anyone. The exercises I've found that I do the most are Jumping Squats, Jumping/Springing Pushups, Hindu Pushups, ABS, ABS, ABS!!!! The stronger your core muscles the harder you hit. And in the end I'd rather have my inward block drop the guy screaming than have to hit them 50 times.
    Right on! Thanks for the info; it is much appreciated.
    Jumping Squats, Sprining Pushups, Hindu Pushups....SHEESH! Thought I escaped all of this stuff after my enlistment was up...oh well.

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Quote Originally Posted by Theban_Legion
    sorry about that I've got a dang good LCD screen. Red on my screen is crystal clear...
    Oh well, we'll try black instead. I'd go back through and edit except I have already Quoted myself, so the edit [function] is locked....
    [also, if you have trouble reading a font color, just left click and highlight the entire section. This will change the color for as long as the section is selected. cheers]


    [edit]
    Black isnt better ..its a dark font on a dark background I see you left a little note in your sig...and to be honest, if I have to do any extra work to read a post, Im not gonna read it (especially when there's a lot of posts where ya gotta do that). I know there are a few others who feel the same way.

    Im not trying to pick on ya, or anything...just want to make sure your posts get read.

    White is the default colour and is great on the dark background.
    Susan A. Spann

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyu
    Black isnt better ..its a dark font on a dark background
    My computer is so old that it only has a black & white monitor, so I'll just have to take your word for all of this

    Les
    I'm only here to learn

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Too bad you didn't live closer - we'd get ya a better monitor! We have a couple of 17" ones just sitting here
    Susan A. Spann

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    FYI, we were doing the timing patterns you mention long before the AKKI was established. Mr. Mills was teaching them when we were still with the IKKA and he was doing them, working them out, long before that. All with the IKKA techniques.This is not some new thing. Mr. Mills put them together in an organized, teachable format.
    Hope that helps,
    Alan

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Curious The ban legion,
    Where did you learn the timing patterns? I asked you in a private message some time ago who your instructor was and training, etc., and it seemed that took you back some. I'm now asking you in public so there is no thought to any hidden agenda on my part or stalking. I would like to know.
    Thanks

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan J.
    Mr. Mills was teaching them when we were still with the IKKA and he was doing them, working them out, long before that. All with the IKKA techniques.This is not some new thing. Mr. Mills put them together in an organized, teachable format.
    Hope that helps,
    Alan
    I have found that the timing patterns can be easily applied to most, if not all of the Techniques in the IKKA curriculum.

    Occasionally, I go along to an old friends club and the techniques just work so much bettter for me with the timing properly adjusted.

    They're there, you just have to look for them.

    Les
    I'm only here to learn

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Les,
    "They're there, you just have to look for them."
    Thing of it is, the timing patterns are not in the techniques per say. The motion is but the ability to move the timing on the patterns or drills is not. If that was the case, everyone would be doing them regardless of instructor. In the AKKI you first learn the DRILLS for the timing but not the patterns. Many confuse the two. They are very different. That's why its a bit comical to watch those who were with us for a while and picked up on a few drills and think they have our timing. Just the drills. Many are just moving their hands quickly. That is why we get criticized as many can see it as one or two dimensional with no real power. Understanding the principles (and grafted principles) that guide them, angles, external/internal muscle mechanics will someone be able to hit them like you've seen Mr. Mills do. Power, precision, accuracy, and explosive velocity.

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Mr Jacob,

    Thanks for pointing that out to me.

    I can see that I was only looking at the surface motion when I said that.

    I'm flying over to Ireland today to work with Mr Fusciardi so I'll ask him to go over them with me in detail if there is time.

    Les
    I'm only here to learn

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan J.
    Curious The ban legion,
    Where did you learn the timing patterns? I asked you in a private message some time ago who your instructor was and training, etc., and it seemed that took you back some. I'm now asking you in public so there is no thought to any hidden agenda on my part or stalking. I would like to know.
    Thanks
    Hello,

    Sorry about taking so long in responding. I haven't checked KenpoTalk since july or august.
    I had an introductory lesson at EastSide Kenpo in Texas, and I have had discussions with several individuals who were at one time a part of the AKKI.
    I find the rythmatic timing drills to be absolutely fascinating. For me, it has opened up a different approach to training.

    As for my reaction to your PM, I misunderstood your intentions. I certainly over-reacted, and I apologize. I have the greatest of respects for the Mills family of martial artists.

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Thanks for the note and I appreciate the understanding. I think it would be worth you time to invest more of it and allow the thought process of the AKKI and it's techniques to take the timing drills you have spoken highly of, to a whole new level. It would be worth yout time to get in touch with John Connolly there in Fort Worth.

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    Default Re: Timing Drills

    Perhaps you are right.

    To be honest, I think my main hesitation stems from starting over yet again. I fooled myself for a little while thinking that it wouldn't be a problem to put on a white belt again. It is as if I would be accepting as fact that what little that I did learn of SGM Parker's Kenpo really doesn't mean anything after all. Pride is a silly, yet powerful, thing.

    I want to relate an event, which pertains to AKKI Kenpo, that happened last week. One of my co-workers was goaded by another into becoming violent. He attacked me. I was taken completely by surprise. (I am not new to physical altercations; however, I do find them to be distasteful) This time there was something very different.
    I had a moment in time which I have experienced only during one other event: a car accident. There was a frozen second in time. It was very strange. I don't quite recall exactly what happened next. It was as if my body moved more quickly than my mind could comprehend. My opponent ended up spinning and falling away from me as I withdrew. I don't think that I have ever moved so fast, so powerfully in my life.
    I have spent the last several days trying to piece together what exactly happened. I haven't been able to recreate that speed and power. I do know that my right hand moved first, and it wasn't a blocking motion. I do know that I hit him three times. I do know that he spun completely around to his right while falling. For some reason, I remember that burst-fire striking sound. That sound had the same sped up cadence as the first timing drill.

    I've been trying to figure out what the movements were that I used. If it was the motion of the timing drill, then it was done on the vertical plane instead of horizontal. The second movement of the drill is an inward movement which would have stopped his spinning motion, so the actions must all have struck diagonally outward on his right arm, shoulder, and head. I must have struck his arm with the first movement of my right hand. My left hand must have struck along the same path, if not the same target, in order to make him spin like that and to quickly provide the second "beat" in the cadence that I heard. The third strike must have moved "point of orgin" to the neck or head (or perhaps even the arm or shoulder again). I have put considerable effort into using elliptical motion, so I speculate that all three of these strikes were elliptical in execution.

    That's not the timing drill... I'm fairly certain that I used Flashing Swords. I'll never know for sure, but the effects of the movements were evident.
    Of all of the American Kenpo techniques that I know, I think that my subconscious pulled up an AKKI technique that I haven't trained with in months.
    I am not a particularly skilled Kenpo guy. I'm fairly certain that most members of this board could lay me on the mat quite easily (although I'd try to give a good fight ), so I can't quite figure out 1)how I moved like I did, 2)how I instinctively executed one of my newest techniques (I should be years away from internalizing that technique), 3)why a technique dissimilar to the timing drill had the same cadence, and 4) why the heck can't I remember exactly what I did ?

    As for the man, my co-worker, that became violent: After I put him down we both just stared at each other. It was as if a bucket of ice water had been dumped over both of our heads. He eventually got up and walked outside. I just stood there for awhile. We haven't spoken of it since.

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