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Thread: Spontaneity

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    Default Spontaneity

    What type of drills do you guys use to develop a trained response to outside stimuli (pre-determined spontaneous behaviour.... somewhat of an oxymoron)?

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    Perhaps my wording wasn't clear.

    I don't mean that your opponent throws a right round house so you do Five Swords. I'm looking more towards the idea of you and your opponent squaring off, not in a technique line, and you work your defense or offense based on his spontaneous actions.

    Obviously you can use the sets, such as centerline, as an entry and then execute techniques from any one of the given positions within the set. This is more of what I am looking for. I don't necessarily care about the technique you execute, but more of training the initial response and discerning the queues and clues that their body language transmits to defend or even attack appropriately.
    Anyone want to share their methods, or at least throw out their two cents?

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    Thumbs up Re: Spontaneity

    I think that universal set and centerline set are outstanding in this regard. At our club sometime Bro John and me will play with universal set and whatever attack comes you have to react. We also move in and out of the phases of it while randomizing attacks. For me this has really helped develop spontaneity. I honestly think it has to do with repetitious execution and visualizing the attack over and over. If you are expecting one attack and only work your techs one at a time against that one attack you arent expanding your ability to become gaseous.
    No if you can "simulate" spontenaity by increasing yet limiting your attacks (more then one obviously) I believe you can build up your reactions and help develop or spark this.
    Something simple in example would be say work with a right and left punch only. Your attack can not throw anything but has a choice of what to throw, so we know that we need to respond within flashing swords or swords of fury. You could add to this by adding a new attack (such as a kick) so then we know our response will be a)flashing swords b) swords of fury or c) deflecting pendulum if you can visualize the universal pattern your attacker is taking you around it in these limited attacks.
    No it is not true spontaneous action in a sense that the attacks are completely random. But I think that working the techniques along with the sets this way can help you visualize and facilitate being spontaneous.
    www.hunterskarate.com

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    We work universal and centerline for spontinaity but we switch up the attacks. For instance instead of any fixed count just do each manuever for a while then move to a different strike. Once students get a hold of this we have them work switching between universal and centerline going in and out of the sets. Now that we have Trapping Set I suppose we will be adding that to the mix.

    One thing to be conscious of in spontanious drilling is footwork. I've seen many people get lead feet when they are thrown off by the attacker. Practice switches and other foot manuevers while in centerline and universal.

    Just some things that we play with at our school.

    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    Quote Originally Posted by cloak13

    Practice switches and other foot manuevers while in centerline and universal.

    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD
    Very good idea! I am going to try it!
    www.hunterskarate.com

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    What are you refering to when you say universal set?
    "Some people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them"

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender
    What are you refering to when you say universal set?
    VERRRY Generallly Speaking: Universal Set is an AKKI two-man set in which each person counters overhead strikes, straight punches, upper-cuts, and inward elbows. ( And that is only at level one, level two is even more complex.)

    Hope this helps,

    Joseph
    Last edited by karateminister; 04-19-2005 at 02:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter
    No it is not true spontaneous action in a sense that the attacks are completely random. But I think that working the techniques along with the sets this way can help you visualize and facilitate being spontaneous.
    To me, when we work this drill, it's more about being able to read the attack 'in-flight' and respond appropriately. You are correct, it's not truly 'sponatneous'...not in the true sense of the word, but it's....uncertain. In the future you'll see us doing even more of this; really varying it up. ((mostly in the 8:30pm classes Brian)) Working with the "Intercepting through wedging" concept that the Blue Belt manual touches on....emphasizing the master keys....it makes these kind of drills so much easier. That's part of the beauty of working with the Master Keys, I think.

    I really enjoy working the universal set with NO pre-set order or pattern. Can't really "FLY OFF" like you can when counting it out (1-2-3-4-5..change...1-2-3.....etc. etc.) but it sure does work on sensory accuity and ability to 'alter' mid-flight. I love it.
    GOOD topic here Minister!!!

    Your Brother
    John

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    Don't forget it is not just about counters. Universal, Centerline, and Trapping Set are two sided (A and B). Make sure both work on what they are to be working on. Yeah, kinda vague but here is an example:

    When punching make sure A is guarding their head prior to executing the punch. In Centerline where is A's inactive hand? Its guarding. Students usually find this a little frustrating because they have to think about keeping their hands up while executing the set but it is a good way to focus on guarding the head.

    That's just a simple example, so think about what else A does. The real fun comes in on Advanced Universal Set when A and B are doing motions that might not be super obvious what is going on. Part of the fun is figuring out how to apply the sets to one's forms/techniques.

    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    Quote Originally Posted by cloak13
    Part of the fun is figuring out how to apply the sets to one's forms/techniques.

    Tim Kulp
    ALL very very good points Tim!!!!!!
    Figuring how the motion/timing...etc. of the sets applies w/in our techs and bits of our forms...THAT is for me the Greatest fun!!!
    That's one of the funnest things in the AKKI, I think....
    seeing where something you learned in one part augments/accelerates what you are doing in another part. Also seems to help in teaching!!!

    Your Brother
    John

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    I , too, like the drill where two people are working techniques. Person A throws an attack (maybe a roundhouse punch) and person B has to defend. The "allowed" attacks are pre-arranged. Usually we keep it to no more than three. It is keeps it easy at first. You know that only one of three attacks is coming. As we progress, we can increase the number of available attacks at any one time. I think it was Ueshiba (sp?) from Aikido who would have his students randomly attack him during a class. Anyhow, you can pair up beginning and (responsible) advanced students with this drill. The advanced students can work the more advanced techniques against the attacks and the beginning students can practice their techniques against those same attacks. In fact, even if I plan to use a more advanced technique, I find myself many times reverting back to the new yellows instinctively. Besides teaching students visual cues of certain attacks, it also helps train the attacker on how not to telegraph. Anyhow, thanks for the suggestions on drills!

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    1. No doubt the drills taught by the AKKI help develope spontaneity. They are primarily energy drills to develope a feel of your opponent. Something I have heard from Mr. Mills over and over again, once you have the base drill down, get out of thr drill. For example work Centerline set from spontaneous punches or Two Man Knife Set from spontaneous attacks.

    2. Something we as instructors try and provide our students is a safe controlled environment to train within. Yet the very idea of spontaneity is working within an environment which is uncontrolled or unplanned. With this comes the very real threat of injury. There is not only student health considerations but legal ramifications for school owners. For those of us that teach out of our house, to have a student injuried in our house carries
    equal if not greater risk. It is a tough balancing act to provide students with the needed training to be successful. Some students are willing to take greater risk in developing skill then others. Training must be taloired to fit the individual needs.

    3. I am a huge believer in realistic training methods. No doubt technique lines help with developing movement, but at some point in technique developement it out lives its purpose. For example, take two students who train for six months. One trains Forms and technique lines while the other trains within a realistic fighting environment daily. If these two were to fight who would you put your money on?

    4. Something I personally like to do; that I have done with Kenpo Yahoo, is a drill called "street survival." This training allows us to focus on the specific tactics used by different fighters. It utilizes focused spontaneous attacks from an attacker. On a given day I might decide to be a grappler and attack with spontaneous take downs for 2-5 minutes. I might decide to attack with none stop punches. It allows us to focus on the stratigy needed to defeat these type of fighters. A game plan if you will. The idea works similar to that of an airplane simulator, where engine failures and fires are thrown at the pilots. The pilots have procedures that should be followed in dealing with the situation, similar to the kenpoist has techniques and drills to help deal with different situations. The idea is to place the student in different situations.

    5. Something else that can be done is; within a sparring environment, attack with only grabs, pushes, punches, kicks, or hugs. Just an idea.

    6. I love focus glove work as well, really helps develope movement and spontaneity.

    Just some thoughts

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    I like the "street attacker" drill you are doing there. I will be definately incorporating that into my advanced class starting next week. We have been playing with going from Two Man Knife into Universal and Centerline but "playing" is the operative word there. I think that would be a cool class to have in Vegas, investigating the links between the sets.

    Lots of good ideas in that post.
    Thanks!

    Tim Kulp
    Westminster, MD

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    I don't know why I didnt' think of this before....
    SHADOW BOXING.

    a lot more "spontaneous"..


    Your Brother
    John

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    When working drills against a grappler, consider starting at the knees for safety, then building to the feet. The techniques Decending Ram, Dividing Ram, and Collapsing Ram are designed to be worked progessively as the opponent shoots and penetrates through the depth zones. The sprawling in Collapsing Thunder is a prime example of a technique to work from the knees then build to the feet.

    Just a Thought

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    Safety? what's that? :-)

    Thanks for the advice. Our mat is a carpetted wooden frame, it has decent give. So far no one has gotten hurt. Tonight we are working ground material so I'll keep an eye open to see if anyone is taking to the floor too hard.

    Tim Kulp
    Westminter, MD

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    Default Re: Spontaneity

    Please be careful especially with Collapsing Ram. While the sprawl actually requires a little bit of force from both parties, you have to be careful.

    I was working this technique progression with a buddy of mine and we started going at it a little harder than we probably should have been. Well on one of the sprawls I ate the ground so hard I thought my jaw was broken for about a day, and on another my workout partner tried to catch himself. Unfortunately his arm was somewhat locked out and he ended up breaking his arm.

    Take it slow and be very careful.

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    Talking Re: Spontaneity

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo Yahoo
    Please be careful especially with Collapsing Ram. While the sprawl actually requires a little bit of force from both parties, you have to be careful.

    I was working this technique progression with a buddy of mine and we started going at it a little harder than we probably should have been. Well on one of the sprawls I ate the ground so hard I thought my jaw was broken for about a day, and on another my workout partner tried to catch himself. Unfortunately his arm was somewhat locked out and he ended up breaking his arm.

    Take it slow and be very careful.

    "It's not a lack of control, it's a lack of concern."



    Be safe out there.
    MH

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    Unhappy Re: Spontaneity

    "It's not a lack of control, it's a lack of concern."



    Be safe out there.
    Real funny..... next thing I know you'll be growing a mullet.

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    Thumbs up Re: Spontaneity

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo Yahoo
    Real funny..... next thing I know you'll be growing a mullet.
    Now that you mention it, a mullet would match my beer-belly quite nicely. "Business in the front, party in the back!!"



    MH

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