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Thread: Some Advice

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    Default Some Advice

    I'm starting to feel some discomfort in the back top part of my shoulders. I'm not sure if it's from over training, or injury. Any advice on this type of continual soreness?
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Could you be a little more specific on what you mean by discomfort. Sharp Stabbing, Dull Ache, etc...?
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    If you have continueing discomfort and pain you need to stop training and see a doctor or you could risk a permanent injury.
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Yeah.....too little info. It's hard to tell what's going on. What have you been doing lately? Anything out of the ordinary....not only in karate, but out? Could be a posture thing, alignment thing. Be safe- go see a doctor and see what the deal is.....maybe it's something a chiropractor could help with. At any rate.....best wishes to you for a speedy recovery and a future of pain free training!!
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Full salute and thank you to you all.
    To be more specific, it feels like a dull ache and really bugs me when I sleep. I'm not sure, but I think it's the tendons on the outside. Both the front and back.
    I don't have insurance at the moment, so I'm trying to see if anyone has any preventive advice.
    Thanks again.
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151 View Post
    I'm starting to feel some discomfort in the back top part of my shoulders. I'm not sure if it's from over training, or injury. Any advice on this type of continual soreness?
    I've been there!!!

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    Default Re: Some Advice

    What type of work do you do? Are you at the computer often?

    I recently had the same problem and thought it could be that I was storing tension in my neck, shoulders and between my shoulder blades.

    When I got a massage, the therapist suggested that it could be the result of how I sit to type and work at the computer. Could this be your problem? I.e. are you sure it has to do with training or could it be occupational?
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    I'm betting that at least part of the problem is myofascial pain. The short (and wholely inadequate) explanation is that the muscles are bound up and cannot freely move. They try, but the result is pain. If they are bound really badly, they may hurt continuously. That's the bad news.

    The really bad news is that the myofascia is bound for a reason, and you need to know what that is before you can properly treat it. You can release the binding, but without knowing what is wrong, you may do dammage. And it can be almost anything causing the binding.

    The usual culprit is some kind of trauma- and any trauma will cause mf binding. But it can also be the result of repetative motion or long held positioning, or musclular guarding for another injury. And the real problem may not be in the area you feel the most discomfort. I have a problem in my neck that manifests in my head, shoulders, back, and chest, mostly.

    More bad news. You can do this yourself, but it can be (but isn't allways) extremely painful to release the myofascia. Immagine jamming a 6" stick of 5/8" dowel at @38' up under your shoulder blade. And into your neck, in variouse places. And into your arm pit. And you can't move to make it less painful- you have to chase the pain and hold on it until it releases. But the real pain is not from the dowel, it is from the binding and pulling that radiates out through several muscle groups. And you then have to follow and "treat" those areas as well. My wife can follow my "therapy" sessions by looking at the bruises on my body. The worst part is, since the problem in my neck is chronic, I can sometimes immediately feel it start to guard and, consequently, begin to bind down. So, do yourself a favor and find out what the problem is first. If you can fix that, you may save yourself a lot of grief.

    Sometimes simple stretches work if the problem isn't that seriouse. I'd start by stretching and holding the affected areas. Try to find positions where the tension is greatest and hold that, gently increasing the stretch as the muscles release. That's what I do when I feel mine start to guard, and it works (for a while).

    You might also try http://www.fenixstopspain.com/index.html I have one and it works, but not aggressive enough for parts of my problem. They do have a manual and dvd that does a very good job of teaching you how to self treat.

    There is also someone on this board that does trigger point therapy, which sounds like it is similar. You might look around and PM him if you can find him. If your problem isn't seriouse or chronic, maybe he could help.

    But you really need to find out what the underlying problem is. Hopefully you just got a little rough in training one night and it is a simple fix. Good luck.

    Dan C

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    Default Re: Some Advice

    dude i have the same aches.. in my free time (alot more lately since work's slowing down) im at a computer.. but iv always been a computer person and never had problems.. i work in a warehouse lifting lots of smaller foodservice items (as opposed to big things like TVs and home appliances which iv done for a few years) my shoulder blades ache alot lately.. probably repetetive stress.. also the back of my neck/upper shoulders.. i might get a back brace (the kind that push your chest) so i can keep my back straight when im not working... you might wanna try that and see if it helps.

    it sucks if its work related.. cos i do all sorts of kneels and squats and things to keep from bending down to pick things up to keep preasure off my lower back, and its my upper back thats sore.

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    Default Re: Some Advice

    I have found that since I moved to the desert, I have more aches, pains and allergies than ever before. It gets really bad when I am not getting enough water (not soda, tea or coffee) to drink. I often put myself through a detox using natural methods (licorice root tea is a good one) and adding about a gallon of water a day. There is a pressure point between the thumb and forefinger and if you rub it twords the heart, it will help releave the pain in your shoulders as well. Hot baths right before bed help cause it's hard not to fully relax when you are warm.

    Force yourself to drink extra water though, even when you aren't thirsty. It can't hurt you, and it can help get the toxins out of your muscel tissue.
    My father is a pharmicist and a doc of herbal medician. These are his suggestions.

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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Mikael,

    I will be leaving for Pasadina in a few hours. I hear it isn't much of a drive from Las Vegas. I get done teaching trigger point therapy to physical therapists at 4 on Saturday. I don't think I will be able to get to a computer to check my email. I will be at the Westin Hotel. The phone number there is 626-792-2727. If you want to come I'll give you a treatment and show you how to help yourself. Bring a tennis ball and a raquet ball. I taught in Las Vegas a few months ago. I will see if I can find one of the attendees to get you some local help as well.

    Many people who treat myofascial problems believe that treatment must be painful to be effective. That is not true. Painful treatment tends to give temporary relief but actually tends to perpetuate the pain in the long run.

    I f you can make it - do it! You will save me another boring evening away from home. If anyone in the area wants to join in just leave a message! I would rather be helping people in pain or discussing kenpo than be stuck in a hotel in a strange town! It would be great to put faces and personalities with people on the list!
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Finn View Post
    Many people who treat myofascial problems believe that treatment must be painful to be effective. That is not true. Painful treatment tends to give temporary relief but actually tends to perpetuate the pain in the long run.
    Not allways, but sometimes it is necessary. I've been treated by three different professionals, all with good results in some areas. But for me, with the primary problem I have, the method I described is the only thing that has worked. The pain is a guide, as well as necessary to release the myofacial binding. My non-professional view is go the gentlest route possible, but be prepared and willing to go the worst (regarding pain) if necessary.

    However, trust me on this, if you have an alternative method that is as effective, I WILL be more than happy to listen and consider or try it!!!
    The self treatment I do is not the best way to waste an afternoon!

    Dan C

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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Go have a doctor look at it.
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Thanks guys. A lot of good advice and a lot of stuff I had no idea about. I've been taking Osteo Biflex and that has helped tremendously. Since we're having our camp here in Vegas this weekend I've been able to work with my original instructor and talk to him about it. The injury seems to have come from me throwing strikes and not focusing on proper alignment (such as an inward elbow and letting the elbow get above my shoulder and then overrotating it). Working with Mr. Brumby at this camp has helped me to correct those things and I'm feeling a lot better.
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151 View Post
    Thanks guys. A lot of good advice and a lot of stuff I had no idea about. I've been taking Osteo Biflex and that has helped tremendously. Since we're having our camp here in Vegas this weekend I've been able to work with my original instructor and talk to him about it. The injury seems to have come from me throwing strikes and not focusing on proper alignment (such as an inward elbow and letting the elbow get above my shoulder and then overrotating it). Working with Mr. Brumby at this camp has helped me to correct those things and I'm feeling a lot better.
    That sounds like a joint problem. Entirely different. But I'd still check out the myofascial release or trigger point therapies. It is almost certainly a factor. (I only say "almost" because I'm not a professional- but the pro's tell me it is the case). The pressure put on the joints by myofascila binding, whether a result of injury or guarding, will agrivate joint problems, making them worse and/or preventing healing. Sounds like you got lucky!

    Dan C

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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Finn View Post
    Mikael,

    I will be leaving for Pasadina in a few hours. I hear it isn't much of a drive from Las Vegas. I get done teaching trigger point therapy to physical therapists at 4 on Saturday. I don't think I will be able to get to a computer to check my email. I will be at the Westin Hotel. The phone number there is 626-792-2727. If you want to come I'll give you a treatment and show you how to help yourself. Bring a tennis ball and a raquet ball. I taught in Las Vegas a few months ago. I will see if I can find one of the attendees to get you some local help as well.

    Many people who treat myofascial problems believe that treatment must be painful to be effective. That is not true. Painful treatment tends to give temporary relief but actually tends to perpetuate the pain in the long run.

    I f you can make it - do it! You will save me another boring evening away from home. If anyone in the area wants to join in just leave a message! I would rather be helping people in pain or discussing kenpo than be stuck in a hotel in a strange town! It would be great to put faces and personalities with people on the list!
    Wish I could've made it. Obviously, you know what your talking about. About all I know of these injury types is where it hurts. I had a little pain Thursday night at the camp and while training with Mr. Brumby he pointed out that I was reaching too high with my elbow strikes and throwing them out of alignment. I might have been doing it before when I lived in a more humid climate, but the dryness of the desert might have something to do with less fluid around the joints-I don't know. But, since I've corrected some of my movements, the aggravation is gone.
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Brother, I know all about joint problems. I've had 3 orthopedic surgeries in my life. I supplement my diet with a product calld "Move Free Advanced plus MSM." The standard glucosamine and chondroitin never helped me much, but this supplement has helped me somewhat. I'm sure you're not as old and decrepid as I am so this might be more of a benefit to you. LOL. Give it a try, whatcha' got to loose? (give it 2 weeks minimum to see any difference)
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan View Post
    Not allways, but sometimes it is necessary. I've been treated by three different professionals, all with good results in some areas. But for me, with the primary problem I have, the method I described is the only thing that has worked. The pain is a guide, as well as necessary to release the myofacial binding. My non-professional view is go the gentlest route possible, but be prepared and willing to go the worst (regarding pain) if necessary.

    However, trust me on this, if you have an alternative method that is as effective, I WILL be more than happy to listen and consider or try it!!!
    The self treatment I do is not the best way to waste an afternoon!

    Dan C

    There are reasons why some people do better with a more painful trigger point technique. When the pain becomes chronic, the painful technique willl feel good for a while. The problem is that the area learns to feel pain with a lesser stimulus. After a while you even begin growing more nerve tissue in the area making it even more sensitive.

    Your body will generally learn to stay relaxed and more pain free with a lighter type of touch. There are a number of self treatment books out. One that advocates light pressure combined wiuth stretches is written by a good friend of mine. It is entitled, "The Winners Guide to Pain Relief." You can find it at www.winoverpain.com.

    Give it a try!
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    Default Re: Some Advice

    Thank you, sir. I'll look it up.

    Dan C

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