Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Successor

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Successor

    Who if anybody has Al Tracy appointed as a successor for his art? Is there someone out there ready to take the reigns when he passes on?
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  2. #2
    Jim Hanna is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Purple Belt
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 179 Times in 95 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    I just attended a seminar last month which was conducted by Mr Tracy. He never sat down once until the end of the seminar. ( Meanwhile, everyone else at one time or another ended up sitting on the mat during a break).

    At this point in time I know of no appointed successor. If you check the Tracy's family tree you will discover that we do have several qualified 8ths and 9ths.

    Mr Tracy always has several irons in the fire: videos/dvds he's working on, photo manuals, seminars, GOE's, Hall of Fame's, etc. I am confident that we will be fine.

    Jim

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    When Ed Parker passed away there were many high ranking belts but no consenus on who should lead, and that created a lot of fragmentation. I am hoping Al Tracy would learn from the confusion he saw at that time.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  4. #4
    Kenpodave's Avatar
    Kenpodave is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Green Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, Louisiana, United States,
    Posts
    593
    Thanks
    227
    Thanked 396 Times in 197 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    When Ed Parker passed away there were many high ranking belts but no consenus on who should lead, and that created a lot of fragmentation. I am hoping Al Tracy would learn from the confusion he saw at that time.
    I think that he has definitely learned from the confusion. Although there is no named successor that I am aware of, there has been talk of a plan.

    Frankly, though, those of us that know Al Tracy personally never seem to grow comfortable with speaking of what will happen to the system if he dies. My personal feeling is that we all have a responsibility to the system we were taught, the man who created it, and his wishes, whenever he decides to make them known.

    Also, it seems to me that it is our 8ths and 9ths who really learned from the fragmentation of the Parker System. A good example is the reunion planned for April that is all about getting these guys together to trade war stories and knowledge. I have attended quite a few seminars with quite a few of our seniors, and hear nothing but respect from all of them about all of them.

    I'm with Jim.
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


  5. #5
    DaveSimmons's Avatar
    DaveSimmons is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. White Belt
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    St. Paul MN
    Posts
    27
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpodave
    I think that he has definitely learned from the confusion. Although there is no named successor that I am aware of, there has been talk of a plan.

    Frankly, though, those of us that know Al Tracy personally never seem to grow comfortable with speaking of what will happen to the system if he dies. My personal feeling is that we all have a responsibility to the system we were taught, the man who created it, and his wishes, whenever he decides to make them known.

    Also, it seems to me that it is our 8ths and 9ths who really learned from the fragmentation of the Parker System. A good example is the reunion planned for April that is all about getting these guys together to trade war stories and knowledge. I have attended quite a few seminars with quite a few of our seniors, and hear nothing but respect from all of them about all of them.

    I'm with Jim.

    In my opinion I believe Al Tracy has planned for the future. The big question is the hierachy, that being said, the seniors will support Al Tracy's decision. His say is final! Knowing Al for many years, he never does anything on the spur of the moment. In fact, he has encouraged all his black belts to be self sufficient.

    Respectfully,
    Dave Simmons

  6. #6
    Kenpodave's Avatar
    Kenpodave is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Green Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, Louisiana, United States,
    Posts
    593
    Thanks
    227
    Thanked 396 Times in 197 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSimmons
    In fact, he has encouraged all his black belts to be self sufficient.

    Respectfully,
    Dave Simmons
    Yes, definitely. Which would make it very difficult for the system to fragment. Many of our seniors already have their own "systems" that fly, fully supported, under the Tracy Banner. Ray Arquilla, Richard Lee, Roger Greene, Bart Vale, and Joe Simonet immediately come to mind.
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


  7. #7
    Dr. Kenpo's Avatar
    Dr. Kenpo is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Orange Belt
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    119
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad
    Who if anybody has Al Tracy appointed as a successor for his art? Is there someone out there ready to take the reigns when he passes on?
    Well, I plan to claim Texas for myself under the Tracy flag, so you must pay a tribute if you want to cross!
    " Come with me, and I will complete your trainning."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Real estate in 3 states
    Posts
    2,963
    Thanks
    1,852
    Thanked 1,160 Times in 817 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    When Ed Parker passed away there were many high ranking belts but no consenus on who should lead, and that created a lot of fragmentation. I am hoping Al Tracy would learn from the confusion he saw at that time.
    Knowing Al, it's a business decision, and not a karate linage decision.

    I wonder if he's even thought about it?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

  9. #9
    sifuroy is offline In Memory of our Departed Friend
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,027
    Thanks
    958
    Thanked 444 Times in 304 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    I would have to agree with Dr.La Tourrette. I think it will be a business decision more than anything else. He has an efficient operating system and he will want to be sure it continues.

    I am Most Respectfully,
    Sifuroy

  10. #10
    Kenpodave's Avatar
    Kenpodave is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Green Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, Louisiana, United States,
    Posts
    593
    Thanks
    227
    Thanked 396 Times in 197 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Another thing to remember is that, unlike Ed Parker, Al Tracy has a son who is a 5th dan and runs a successful Tracy's school...
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


  11. #11
    Z-Rex's Avatar
    Z-Rex is offline Zoran Sevic
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Woodridge, Illinois, United States
    Posts
    907
    Thanks
    1,032
    Thanked 1,472 Times in 607 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    IMO, I think fragmentation is unavoidable. Even if he declares a successor. After all, not everybody will want to follow someone else not of their choosing. Remember, those that follow GM Tracy do so by choice. Once their choice is taken from them, they will leave.

    I am also of an opinion that had Mr. Parker declared a successor, their still would have been fragmentation. Who knows, their may have been more bad blood than there is now.
    God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak.
    Unfortunantly, he gave us 2 eyes and 10 fingers, which explains the problems we get on the internet.~Zoran


    Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic | My Facebook | My YouTube Channel | Where I Teach |
    Like a T-Rex with longer arms

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    6,026
    Thanks
    1,199
    Thanked 1,517 Times in 909 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Rex View Post
    IMO, I think fragmentation is unavoidable. Even if he declares a successor. After all, not everybody will want to follow someone else not of their choosing. Remember, those that follow GM Tracy do so by choice. Once their choice is taken from them, they will leave.

    I am also of an opinion that had Mr. Parker declared a successor, their still would have been fragmentation. Who knows, their may have been more bad blood than there is now.
    GOD FORBID!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Real estate in 3 states
    Posts
    2,963
    Thanks
    1,852
    Thanked 1,160 Times in 817 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpodave View Post
    Another thing to remember is that, unlike Ed Parker, Al Tracy has a son who is a 5th dan and runs a successful Tracy's school...
    And Pat, his wife also does so much.

    So a son, a wife...

    ...lots and lots of DVD's...

    His stuff could be selling productively for the next 20 years.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Ps. I'll ask him next month.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpodave View Post
    Another thing to remember is that, unlike Ed Parker, Al Tracy has a son who is a 5th dan and runs a successful Tracy's school...
    Well Ed Parker Jr. is a 5th degree and endorsed by some very good Kenpoists, while Edmund does not run a school he is a very accomplished martial artist and artist.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Kennewick, WA
    Posts
    1,010
    Thanks
    143
    Thanked 711 Times in 384 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Well Ed Parker Jr. is a 5th degree and endorsed by some very good Kenpoists, while Edmund does not run a school he is a very accomplished martial artist and artist.
    I thought he was a 1st, and then took the title "Ambassador."

    Lamont
    Pekiti Tirsia Kali and Kenpo Karate
    www.blackbirdmartialarts.com

    “He, who will not reason, is a bigot; he, who cannot, is a fool; and he, who dares not, is a slave.”
    ~William Drummond

    "This person is as dangerous as an IED."

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    2,721
    Thanks
    1,601
    Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,444 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    From what I have read (and I admit my knowledge of Mr. Parker is minimal at best) it seems that he is only very peripherally interested in being involved in the kenpo community. Seems like he really would prefer the kenpo community just leave him alone, he isn't interested in stepping into any kind of leadership role, or otherwise serving as a rallying point.

    I don't know Mr. Tracy's son at all, but if he is interested in being more involved, and if Mr. Tracy is teaching him and grooming him to step into the role, there could be greater potential for him to carry on.

    Other good points have been made, it will ultimately be up to the individuals to decide if they would be willing to follow a new successor. As has been mentioned, Tracy blackbelts have a high level of independence and self-sufficiency. I expect there would continue to be a great deal of respect among the members, people will learn from those whom they feel have something to teach them, but there may be a certain level of splintering. But so what? Some of these guys have been training since the 1960s, are tremendously knowledgeable and skilled. At some point, why would these people still need someone to follow? I think it's often done out of respect for one's teacher, but once that teacher is gone, there is less connection to any larger group affiliation. Perhaps the connection will become more of a loose affiliation, and less of a tight group. Who knows?
    Michael


    de gustibus non disputante est.
    Negative Douche Bag Number One

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to flying crane For This Useful Post:

    Z-Rex (05-08-2007)

  18. #17
    Z-Rex's Avatar
    Z-Rex is offline Zoran Sevic
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Woodridge, Illinois, United States
    Posts
    907
    Thanks
    1,032
    Thanked 1,472 Times in 607 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    From what I have read (and I admit my knowledge of Mr. Parker is minimal at best) it seems that he is only very peripherally interested in being involved in the kenpo community. Seems like he really would prefer the kenpo community just leave him alone, he isn't interested in stepping into any kind of leadership role, or otherwise serving as a rallying point.
    Yes, let's not imply anything or speak for Ed Parker. He is more than capable of speaking for himself. Too many times, people have put words in his mouth.
    God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak.
    Unfortunantly, he gave us 2 eyes and 10 fingers, which explains the problems we get on the internet.~Zoran


    Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic | My Facebook | My YouTube Channel | Where I Teach |
    Like a T-Rex with longer arms

  19. #18
    sigung86's Avatar
    sigung86 is offline In Memory of our Departed Friend
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wright City, Missouri, United States, 113653311978716, Wright City, Missouri
    Posts
    1,728
    Thanks
    2,622
    Thanked 1,404 Times in 728 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    I suspect that there is a lot of fudging going on in this thread. Before Al and I had our parting of the ways, he spoke openly, and probably, honestly about his plans for maintaining Tracy's Karaté the way he envisioned it. Wasn't even put out to talk about it.

    I think there are folks, maybe even one or two, who have posted here that know his plans. If not, and they haven't asked, then that's a shame on them. I believe it's better to ask the "dumb" questions than to keep your mouth shut and play innocent or ignorant.

    Totally aside from our little set-to, and the ensuing fracas, I have to admit that I do respect Al Tracy. Not so much for his Kenpo acumen, although to think that is not considerable is folly, but for his insights and far-thinking business skills. In his business training tapes, actually, a knowledge of Karaté ranks about fourth of the things you need to run a successful school. And so, I suspect that he has a plan in place already that he will probably reveal at the next big gathering. I kind of hope I am right. Again, for however much I currently don't care for the man, he has a business skill set that is second to none.

    The thought that his son, a fifth black, and Pat, his wife, a sixth last time I checked, would be strong enough to rule without magnanimous approbation by the truly senior folks is just folly (There's that word again) ... There are several high ranking Blacks in the Tracy System that could, or perhaps will take over or at least carry off a huge number of supporters.

    I kind of tend to think that, regardless of what Al may have in place, there will be a relatively large contingent of break-aways, much political infighting, and such, as well as the coterie that becomes the "traditional" 10th degree.

    Al has managed to alienate a large number of people, and has dropped them off the family tree. I suspect that there will be a number of them who will be dancing, juggling, and fighting somewhere behind the scene for "Leadership" of something.

    I guess, bottom line, I will not be surprised at anything that happens after Al Tracy closes his fist.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Real estate in 3 states
    Posts
    2,963
    Thanks
    1,852
    Thanked 1,160 Times in 817 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Rex View Post
    Yes, let's not imply anything or speak for Ed Parker. He is more than capable of speaking for himself. Too many times, people have put words in his mouth.
    Why not?

    I found the posts about him VERY INFORMATIVE and very congruent with what I already knew about him and about his early training, from whom and when his training really started.

    None of the posts I've read here about him have been disrespectful in any way.

    In fact they have been very truthful.

    So I'm curious to what your concerns are.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

  21. #20
    Kenpodave's Avatar
    Kenpodave is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Green Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, Louisiana, United States,
    Posts
    593
    Thanks
    227
    Thanked 396 Times in 197 Posts

    Default Re: Successor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Well Ed Parker Jr. is a 5th degree and endorsed by some very good Kenpoists, while Edmund does not run a school he is a very accomplished martial artist and artist.
    He may be now. But he was a green belt and not involved in kenpo really at all when his father passed.

    Had he been a 5th then, and an accomplished martial artist, things may be different.
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)