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Thread: Dart

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    Default Dart

    From every outward appearance Dart is one of the shortest, and simplest of all Tracy techniques. What subtle lessons can be learned from this technique?



    Kenpo Gary
    "The heart of the Kenpo System has always been practical-effective- Self Defense Techniques." Al Tracy

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    Default Re: Dart

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo Gary View Post
    From every outward appearance Dart is one of the shortest, and simplest of all Tracy techniques. What subtle lessons can be learned from this technique?



    Kenpo Gary
    Without giving more info that you're allowed, can you describe this technique so those of us who don't know it might still participate?

    Is this one the same as 'darting leaves' in epak?

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    Default Re: Dart

    A couple right off the top of my head include utilizing the waist to develop more speed and in our system, these are the first techniques with strikes to the eyes.

    Amy, if our version of Dart is still the same as the Tracy version then the two we do are for a left hand punch.

    "A": As the attacker throws the punch, step back with the left foot into a fighting stance while the right hand hooks inside the attacker's elbow, left hand will be at guard. Pull your right hand down to your right hip, pulling the attacker in and down. Change the right hand to a Dart position and poke the bad guy in the eye. Turning at the waist as you pull him in incorporates the body into the movement and also winds the spring for the delivery of the Dart hand.

    "B": Same attack. Step back with the left foot into a fighting stance. Hook the inside of the attackers elbow and pull into your right hip, left hand will be at set. Lean away from the attacker slightly as you do this. As you're pulling the attacker in with the sticky hand, turn right into a hardbow stance, delivering a rigid claw to the eyes.
    Last edited by jdinca; 12-09-2007 at 04:32 PM. Reason: .
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: Dart

    My Dart Applications: These are just idea's using the same motion or mechanic's of the Dart
    What if?
    If the jab snaps back; ride the forearm back to the eye jab.
    If it is a low punch to the ribs; hook wrist or elbow and jab
    If it's a round punch; step back hook wrist and throw out to jab
    You can step on the lead foot to keep the attacker there for the eye
    You can use the step forward to kick the shin and drop to jab
    You can use your lead leg knee as a fulcrum to press inward
    You can use your hand momentum to throw the arm down to snap the head forward for the jab.
    You can change body angle throw a direct eye jab over-outside, under, inside attack
    You can block, kick and trip to jab
    You can finger jab the throat
    You can grab the ear and pull, if attacker turns head
    You can pop the ear with a heel palm
    You can apply pressure point strike to the calor bone area
    You can finger jab and drop a palm heel to the nose
    You can plant your foot behind the lead foot and hook the elbow for a sweep
    You can step on foot and push the face/shoulder for takedown
    You can hook the wrist and pull the arm to jab
    You can hook the elbow circle out to grab the shoulder and pull to jab
    I am not done researching the applications of this technique. It is one of my fav's. I like to grease the wheel's of creativity Nubreed
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    Default Re: Dart

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubreed View Post
    My Dart Applications: These are just idea's using the same motion or mechanic's of the Dart
    What if?
    If the jab snaps back; ride the forearm back to the eye jab.
    If it is a low punch to the ribs; hook wrist or elbow and jab
    If it's a round punch; step back hook wrist and throw out to jab
    You can step on the lead foot to keep the attacker there for the eye
    You can use the step forward to kick the shin and drop to jab
    You can use your lead leg knee as a fulcrum to press inward
    You can use your hand momentum to throw the arm down to snap the head forward for the jab.
    You can change body angle throw a direct eye jab over-outside, under, inside attack
    You can block, kick and trip to jab
    You can finger jab the throat
    You can grab the ear and pull, if attacker turns head
    You can pop the ear with a heel palm
    You can apply pressure point strike to the calor bone area
    You can finger jab and drop a palm heel to the nose
    You can plant your foot behind the lead foot and hook the elbow for a sweep
    You can step on foot and push the face/shoulder for takedown
    You can hook the wrist and pull the arm to jab
    You can hook the elbow circle out to grab the shoulder and pull to jab
    I am not done researching the applications of this technique. It is one of my fav's. I like to grease the wheel's of creativity Nubreed
    With so many techniques in the racy system why try re-inventing the wheel, there are specific techniques that would address each of your what ifs.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Dart

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo Gary View Post
    From every outward appearance Dart is one of the shortest, and simplest of all Tracy techniques. What subtle lessons can be learned from this technique?
    Kenpo Gary
    First and foremost, that if you are in your neutral stance with your hands down when the left jab is thrown, you will be hit before you complete the first movement. The nature of the attack the way this technique is formally shown takes the student out of the "non-ready" position. So, I use it to teach students a lesson about anticipation and body positioning. To throw a left jab, by definition, the attacker has to be in a left jab throwing position. He has to be in a fighting stance, his hands up and ready, and within his striking range. If you are not at least in a reciprocal ready stance, then you are already behind.

    The next part of the same lesson is that if your opponent adopts a fighting stance, and gets within striking range, you should have already hit him or begun moving away.
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


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    Default Re: Dart

    I really want to say (again) I don't think it's a good idea to blind someone for throwing a punch...but I won't start that thread again...

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    Default Re: Dart

    From every outward appearance Dart is one of the shortest, and simplest of all Tracy techniques. What subtle lessons can be learned from this technique?

    1. Using the same motion you can create many variations! I look at my techniques as little mini kata's that you can use whatever motion from the techniques. By understanding the various applications of the technique you can understand the weakness and strength. We all approach, train differently. Is it not one of the principles in Kenpo? to be creative? Right? In a short reaction time do I have time to search for a techniques that matches the attack? no. If I have trained my techniques right than my body will tell me what to use. My body will create my own reaction?

    I will not have to think? my body, it will move all by it's self

    When you ask someone about a technique and what it teaches them? It can mean that it teaches different things to different people?
    Nubreed
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    Accumulation of knowledge and hacking away at the unessential is not a product, but a process. It is a continual process that lasts our entire lives. We are contantly accumulating and eliminating. Then again accumulating and eliminating.

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    Default Re: Dart

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    I really want to say (again) I don't think it's a good idea to blind someone for throwing a punch...but I won't start that thread again...
    The only problem with that statement is the circumstance of the encounter. Use of this technique may come later in a confrontation, or it may be again a much larger or stronger opponent. I like to look at techniques as a specific point in time. There is really no way to know how long the fight has been going when you utilize this particular movement.

    Just my .02
    Why is abbreviate such a long word?

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    Default Re: Dart

    Quote Originally Posted by still nobody View Post
    The only problem with that statement is the circumstance of the encounter. Use of this technique may come later in a confrontation, or it may be again a much larger or stronger opponent. I like to look at techniques as a specific point in time. There is really no way to know how long the fight has been going when you utilize this particular movement.

    Just my .02
    Forgive me if I misread the description, but wasn't the idea to block the punch and then poke him in the eye. So your first response to the attacker's jab is to blind him. If we want to change the variables and say, the attacker broke into the house to assassinate you, took three shots at you but missed, then the gun came loose in the struggle, and despite all your years of training he is now kicking your butt in your own house...then sure I guess an eye poke is OK.

    But as I read it, the attacker rolls up on you and throws a jab, so you take out an eye. Women after a couple of weeks in rape prevention course can do that. So why have we dedicated years of study to poke out the eye of another man that throws a jab at you?

    Damn...I started talking about it again...

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    Default Re: Dart

    Your body well respond to the attack all by it's self if you have trained the techniques right. Gm Al Tracy opened my eye's to that fact at a seminar 20 years ago in Wyoming. I asked him what the best techniques was for a knife attack. He asked me how long have I been in Kenpo. I said 10 years. Saying nothing to me, He asked my instructor for his pocket knife. I saw him open it up in his right hand, and he turned his back on me and for safety closed it. He turned and motioned to stab me in the stomach with it and my body moved out of the way and I planted a kick on his shin. All without thought?? So what did I learn with training and experience, your body will move all by it's self. If you train the techniques!
    Nubreed
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    Default Re: Dart

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post

    But as I read it, the attacker rolls up on you and throws a jab, so you take out an eye.
    well, you can read it any way you want, but that doesn't mean it only happens that way. Nothing about the tech guarantees that the jab is the opening movement of the situation. It could have been escalating for a while, and the jab is just one moment in time of a very dangerous situation.

    Blinding someone for throwing a jab at you may not be appropriate. But under different circumstances, it may be...
    Michael


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    Default Re: Dart

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Forgive me if I misread the description, but wasn't the idea to block the punch and then poke him in the eye. So your first response to the attacker's jab is to blind him.
    I agree with what you are saying in principle, my point was simply that you don't know how many jabs have been thrown to this point. Another possibility is his 2 or 3 friends are about to jump in and hand you your ass. So you finish him quickly and move on. Just another tool in the toolbox to quickly end a fight.
    Why is abbreviate such a long word?

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    Default Re: Dart

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Forgive me if I misread the description, but wasn't the idea to block the punch and then poke him in the eye. So your first response to the attacker's jab is to blind him.
    At a certain level, yes. But the idea of the techniques is to teach kenpo. The technique "Dart" is a formal exercise that teaches a set of responses to an attack, in this case, a left jab. A well known axiom in the Tracy System (and hopefully everywhere else in kenpo) is that in any technique, ANY applicable strike can be substituted for any other strike.

    There is a bigger picture than a left jab and an eye poke. Just as you mentioned that adding or changing variables of the technique is not useful, neither is limiting options.

    Now, we could teach Dart with a follow up punch. Then have variations B,C,D, and E where we use the eye strike, the phoenix eye, the middle knuckle, and the palm heel. It's not unheard of in our style. But just as often as our instructional model seeks to show many variations, it will leave a technique like this open to a good discussion about morality, ethics, and when or when not to escalate.

    Much like Aiming the Spear. He grabs my shoulder, I crush his larynx. Any technique, really. I'm sitting here going over them in my mind trying to come up with something that is rather benign. Turns out that, if executed properly, none of them are.

    Kenpo is brutal. That's why they invented karate.
    Dave

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    Default Re: Dart

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    I really want to say (again) I don't think it's a good idea to blind someone for throwing a punch...but I won't start that thread again...
    What if the guy throwing the punch is only one of several aggressors and the others have various weapons?

    Kenpo Gary
    "The heart of the Kenpo System has always been practical-effective- Self Defense Techniques." Al Tracy

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    Default Re: Dart

    When I listed some applications you will see that there is some non violent responses listed:
    You can apply pressure point strike to the calor bone area
    You can plant your foot behind the lead foot and hook the elbow for a sweep.
    You can step on foot and push the face/shoulder for takedown.

    I understand that if Joe cool at the club had a little to much to drink and started talking trash and pushing you around and throws a jab to your face. That is no reason to poke his eye out! I have been taught through experience to always think the worse of situations therefore you have a handle on it, then things go south on you. Here is some thing to think about as well!

    The Four Basic Truths of Violent Assault
    By Rory A. Miller

    As a corrections officer, I am often thrust into sudden violent situations. On one particular occasion, I responded to an incident between two inmates.

    One was brushing his teeth. The other came up behind him and struck him on the right side of his head. The tooth brusher tried to turn but was pressed into a corner, punched again and again with hard rights until he curled into a fetal ball. Blood splashed (not smeared) onto the wall at shoulder height.

    Do you train for this? Do you respect the power of a sudden attack and a constant barrage?

    The attacker broke several bones in his hand and did not know it. He didn’t break just the metacarpals of a boxer's fracture, but also one of his fingers was deformed. He did not know it and just kept hitting. He started complaining of the pain several hours later.

    Do you ever teach that pain alone will stop a committed attacker, that if you break a bone, it's over? **or poke him in the eye**

    I told the attacker that he was lucky. If the other guy had fallen or hit his head on the wall and suffered more serious injury, he could be looking at some heavier charges. He said, "Nah, I held his head with my other hand so it wouldn't hit the wall. I know how you guys trump up charges and if I'd let him hit the wall you'd try to get me for attempted murder."

    Do you and your students realize how rational, how planned, a sudden assault can be? It's only sudden for the defender. Far too often “sudden” is part of his plan. Do you understand that there is a sub-group of human beings who can savagely beat another human being while coolly thinking of their eventual court case?

    The Four Basic Truths

    Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly and with more power than most people can understand.

    Closer: Most self-defense drills are practiced at an optimum distance where the attacker must take at least a half step to contact. This gives techniques like blocks enough time to have an effect. You rarely have this time or this distance in a real assault. Give some thought to how your technique will work if there is no room to turn or step. Remember that the attacker always chooses the range and the location, and will pick a place and position that hampers your movements.

    Faster: When your martial arts students are sparring, use a stop watch and time how many blows are thrown in a minute. Even in professional boxing, the number is not that impressive. Then time how many times you can hit a heavy bag in a second. Six to eight times a second is reasonable for a decent martial artist. An assault is more like that. Because the attacker has chosen a time when the victim is off-guard, he can attack all-out with no thought of defense. A competent martial artist who is used to the more cautious timing of sparring is completely unprepared for this kind of speed. You can strike ten times a second. You can’t block ten times a second.

    More suddenly: An assault is based on the attacker’s assessment of his chances. If he can’t get surprise, he often won’t attack. Some experts will say that there is always some intuitive warning. Possibly, but if the warning was noted and heeded, the attack would have been prevented. When the attack happens, it is always a surprise.

    More power: There is a built-in problem with all training. You want to recycle your partners. If you or your students hit as hard as they can every time they hit, you will quickly run out of students. The average criminal does not hit as hard as a good boxer or karateka can, but they do hit harder than the average boxer or karateka usually does because of gloves and dojo etiquette. More often than not, the first strike in an ambush will find its target. Fighting with a concussion is much different than sparring.

    Responses to the Four Basic Truths

    There are specific ways to train to deal with these truths about assault. You must get used to working from a position of disadvantage. Put yourself and your students in the worst positions you can (face down, under a bench, blindfolded to simulate blood in the eyes and with an arm tied in their belt) and start the training from there. No do-overs. Work from the position you find yourself in. There is no “right” move anyway, just moves that worked or didn’t that one time.

    Contact-response training. Condition (as in operant conditioning) for a quick, effective response to any unexpected aggressive touch. Trained properly, the counter-attack will kick in before the chemical cocktail of stress hormones. This will give you one technique at 100%, and possibly the initiative, to the expected victim. Remember, when you are pumped full of adrenaline, you will loose much of your fine motor coordination, peripheral vision, etc. So you need to have your 100% technique trained to be automatic.

    Train to “flip the switch”. Make your students practice going from friendly, distracted, or any other emotion to full on in an instant. Make them play music, converse, fold clothes, write or pour tea as an armored assailant attacks. The key is that the distraction must be natural and relaxed, not the jerky half-preparation of someone who expects an attack.

    In slow motion training, use realistic time-framing. Do not let them pretend that “Monkey plucks jade lotus and presents to golden Buddha” is one move; do not let them pretend that a spinning kick is just as fast as a jab.

    Get used to being hit, and get used to being touched, especially on the face. For various reasons, face contact between adults is loaded with connotations. Accidental face contact almost always results in both students freezing and can cause an outpouring of emotional sludge. Criminals use this by starting with an open-hand attack to the face (called a “***** slap”) that has paralyzing psychological effects.

    Teach common sensitivity. They must respond to what is happening, not to their expectations or fears. If there are weapons mounted on the walls of your dojo and you are practicing self-defense someone should be reaching for the weapons or running for the door.

    Forbid giving up. Winning is a habit. Fighting is a habit. Put them in positions where they are completely immobilized and helpless and set the expectation to keep fighting.

    The Flaw in the Drill

    In the end, a martial artist is training to injure, cripple or kill another human being. However, in the dojo we cannot go about breaking our students So in any drill where students are not regularly hospitalized there is a DELIBERATE flaw, a deliberate break from the needs of reality introduced in the name of safety. In every drill you teach, you must consciously know what the flaw is and make your students aware of it.

    Rory A. Miller is a Corrections Officer who resides in Portland, Oregon. He is a training officer with the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office and is ranked in Sosuishitsu-ryu Jujutsu and Jud
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    Default Re: Dart

    When I listed some applications you will see that there is some non violent responses listed:
    You can apply pressure point strike to the calor bone area
    You can plant your foot behind the lead foot and hook the elbow for a sweep.
    You can step on foot and push the face/shoulder for takedown.

    I understand that if Joe cool at the club had a little to much to drink and started talking trash and pushing you around and throws a jab to your face. That is no reason to poke his eye out! I have been taught through experience to always think the worse of situations therefore you have a handle on it, then things go south on you. Here is some thing to think about as well!

    The Four Basic Truths of Violent Assault
    By Rory A. Miller

    As a corrections officer, I am often thrust into sudden violent situations. On one particular occasion, I responded to an incident between two inmates.

    One was brushing his teeth. The other came up behind him and struck him on the right side of his head. The tooth brusher tried to turn but was pressed into a corner, punched again and again with hard rights until he curled into a fetal ball. Blood splashed (not smeared) onto the wall at shoulder height.

    Do you train for this? Do you respect the power of a sudden attack and a constant barrage?

    The attacker broke several bones in his hand and did not know it. He didn’t break just the metacarpals of a boxer's fracture, but also one of his fingers was deformed. He did not know it and just kept hitting. He started complaining of the pain several hours later.

    Do you ever teach that pain alone will stop a committed attacker, that if you break a bone, it's over? **or poke him in the eye**

    I told the attacker that he was lucky. If the other guy had fallen or hit his head on the wall and suffered more serious injury, he could be looking at some heavier charges. He said, "Nah, I held his head with my other hand so it wouldn't hit the wall. I know how you guys trump up charges and if I'd let him hit the wall you'd try to get me for attempted murder."

    Do you and your students realize how rational, how planned, a sudden assault can be? It's only sudden for the defender. Far too often “sudden” is part of his plan. Do you understand that there is a sub-group of human beings who can savagely beat another human being while coolly thinking of their eventual court case?

    The Four Basic Truths

    Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly and with more power than most people can understand.

    Closer: Most self-defense drills are practiced at an optimum distance where the attacker must take at least a half step to contact. This gives techniques like blocks enough time to have an effect. You rarely have this time or this distance in a real assault. Give some thought to how your technique will work if there is no room to turn or step. Remember that the attacker always chooses the range and the location, and will pick a place and position that hampers your movements.

    Faster: When your martial arts students are sparring, use a stop watch and time how many blows are thrown in a minute. Even in professional boxing, the number is not that impressive. Then time how many times you can hit a heavy bag in a second. Six to eight times a second is reasonable for a decent martial artist. An assault is more like that. Because the attacker has chosen a time when the victim is off-guard, he can attack all-out with no thought of defense. A competent martial artist who is used to the more cautious timing of sparring is completely unprepared for this kind of speed. You can strike ten times a second. You can’t block ten times a second.

    More suddenly: An assault is based on the attacker’s assessment of his chances. If he can’t get surprise, he often won’t attack. Some experts will say that there is always some intuitive warning. Possibly, but if the warning was noted and heeded, the attack would have been prevented. When the attack happens, it is always a surprise.

    More power: There is a built-in problem with all training. You want to recycle your partners. If you or your students hit as hard as they can every time they hit, you will quickly run out of students. The average criminal does not hit as hard as a good boxer or karateka can, but they do hit harder than the average boxer or karateka usually does because of gloves and dojo etiquette. More often than not, the first strike in an ambush will find its target. Fighting with a concussion is much different than sparring.

    Responses to the Four Basic Truths

    There are specific ways to train to deal with these truths about assault. You must get used to working from a position of disadvantage. Put yourself and your students in the worst positions you can (face down, under a bench, blindfolded to simulate blood in the eyes and with an arm tied in their belt) and start the training from there. No do-overs. Work from the position you find yourself in. There is no “right” move anyway, just moves that worked or didn’t that one time.

    Contact-response training. Condition (as in operant conditioning) for a quick, effective response to any unexpected aggressive touch. Trained properly, the counter-attack will kick in before the chemical cocktail of stress hormones. This will give you one technique at 100%, and possibly the initiative, to the expected victim. Remember, when you are pumped full of adrenaline, you will loose much of your fine motor coordination, peripheral vision, etc. So you need to have your 100% technique trained to be automatic.

    Train to “flip the switch”. Make your students practice going from friendly, distracted, or any other emotion to full on in an instant. Make them play music, converse, fold clothes, write or pour tea as an armored assailant attacks. The key is that the distraction must be natural and relaxed, not the jerky half-preparation of someone who expects an attack.

    In slow motion training, use realistic time-framing. Do not let them pretend that “Monkey plucks jade lotus and presents to golden Buddha” is one move; do not let them pretend that a spinning kick is just as fast as a jab.

    Get used to being hit, and get used to being touched, especially on the face. For various reasons, face contact between adults is loaded with connotations. Accidental face contact almost always results in both students freezing and can cause an outpouring of emotional sludge. Criminals use this by starting with an open-hand attack to the face (called a “***** slap”) that has paralyzing psychological effects.

    Teach common sensitivity. They must respond to what is happening, not to their expectations or fears. If there are weapons mounted on the walls of your dojo and you are practicing self-defense someone should be reaching for the weapons or running for the door.

    Forbid giving up. Winning is a habit. Fighting is a habit. Put them in positions where they are completely immobilized and helpless and set the expectation to keep fighting.

    The Flaw in the Drill

    In the end, a martial artist is training to injure, cripple or kill another human being. However, in the dojo we cannot go about breaking our students So in any drill where students are not regularly hospitalized there is a DELIBERATE flaw, a deliberate break from the needs of reality introduced in the name of safety. In every drill you teach, you must consciously know what the flaw is and make your students aware of it.

    Rory A. Miller is a Corrections Officer who resides in Portland, Oregon. He is a training officer with the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office and is ranked in Sosuishitsu-ryu Jujutsu and Jud
    Sigung Kajukenbo Wun Hop Kuen Do
    Train the way you fight and fight the way you train! http://nubreedma.multiply.com/
    Accumulation of knowledge and hacking away at the unessential is not a product, but a process. It is a continual process that lasts our entire lives. We are contantly accumulating and eliminating. Then again accumulating and eliminating.

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