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Thread: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

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    Default Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    My school is in the middle of a transition. They are changing from a cmbination of Tracy and EPAK to EPAK only. Many techniques I have looked up on the EPAk lists online and found the EPAK equivelant, however, for one technique so far, I have not been able to find an EPAK version: Windmill guard.

    It goes as follows:

    For a right punch
    1. Step with your left foot to 10:30, inward parry with left hand followd by and outward extended block and grab the wqrist with the right hand
    2. Front round kick (wheel kick) to midsection.
    3> Extensions include landing with the right leg at 5:00 and performing a left leg round kick to the back of the attackeers knee as a leg sweep.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Very similar to an IKCA technique called "Thai Boxer". Never seen anything like it in EPAK though...outside a drill anyway.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Very similar to an IKCA technique called "Thai Boxer". Never seen anything like it in EPAK though...outside a drill anyway.
    Darn, that's one of my favorites.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpregler View Post
    Darn, that's one of my favorites.
    then keep it...

    Just because the school is changing doesn't mean you have to forget the stuff that isn't carried across the border.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    then keep it...

    Just because the school is changing doesn't mean you have to forget the stuff that isn't carried across the border.
    Of course I will, but I will never more get the benefit of an advanced black belt breaking down all of the intricacies of the technique for me.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpregler View Post
    Of course I will, but I will never more get the benefit of an advanced black belt breaking down all of the intricacies of the technique for me.
    well, maybe you can make up a list of your favorites that aren't going to be included, and perhaps your instructor will agree to work those from time to time. It can't hurt to ask. In the mean time, work them on your own, and see if you can sneak them into various drills during training sessions, if appropriate. Show how useful they can be. That might spark some interest among the other students, and maybe they might find a position back in the curriculum. If not, just keep it for yourself, at least you tried, and do your best with them. As you progress and gain experience and confidence, you will probably develop your own insights on these techs, regardless.

    I am curious tho, how does a school just suddenly switch curriculum like that? I assume they have been using the old curriculum for years, what happens to make them decide to switch, and how do they get the appropriate training to actually implement the switch and be able to suddenly teach a different curriculum? Has the instructor been learning this from a different teacher for a few years, and now is in a position to become a full EPAK instructor?
    Michael


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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Our master, Dennis Tosten studied under Joe Palanzo and studied with Ed Parker during the 70s-80s. I don;t think he was eveer considered a first generation student however, since he recieved his black belt from Palanzo. He added Tracy stuff in the 80s as he felt that the curriculum was easier to teach. I am not sure where he learned the Tracy curriculum. Also I am not sure what made him recently decide to go all EPAK instead of a combined curriculum. Further, one of the senseis in our school studied under Joe Palanzo as well as Dennis Tosten.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Mr. Tosten started off in the Tracy system. Him and a Canadian instructor Mike Donovan are good friends and started their training together.

    Most of the people on the East Coast started their Kenpo Journey back in the day in the Tracy system
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpregler View Post
    My school is in the middle of a transition. They are changing from a cmbination of Tracy and EPAK to EPAK only. Many techniques I have looked up on the EPAk lists online and found the EPAK equivelant, however, for one technique so far, I have not been able to find an EPAK version: Windmill guard.

    It goes as follows:

    For a right punch
    1. Step with your left foot to 10:30, inward parry with left hand followd by and outward extended block and grab the wqrist with the right hand
    2. Front round kick (wheel kick) to midsection.
    3> Extensions include landing with the right leg at 5:00 and performing a left leg round kick to the back of the attackers knee as a leg sweep.
    Don't know about EPAK but that's Handstaff A in Bok Fu Do. The differences are that instead of an inward parry (open hand), it's an inward block followed by an outward block to a grab. When you do the kick. pull the hand that's doing the grab down to your waist, bringing the attacker's head down. The prefered goal would be to deliver the kick to the head but in reality, it's usually a knee, or a shin to the head, or chest.

    We also have a kick called the "Double Block Wheel" that is the same as the technique without the grab.
    Last edited by jdinca; 09-07-2007 at 07:57 PM. Reason: .
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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Mr. Tosten started off in the Tracy system. Him and a Canadian instructor Mike Donovan are good friends and started their training together.

    Most of the people on the East Coast started their Kenpo Journey back in the day in the Tracy system
    When I looked him up in the lineage he showed up under Palanzo. Was he one of the add-ons that Mr. Parker made?

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpregler View Post
    When I looked him up in the lineage he showed up under Palanzo. Was he one of the add-ons that Mr. Parker made?
    He is under Palanzo because he is or atleast was part of the WKKA Board of Directors.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    From that description it kind of sounds like Reversing Mace on the other side with an insertion (round house to the stomach) and deletion (back knuckle).
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    My school is in the middle of a transition. They are changing from a cmbination of Tracy and EPAK to EPAK only. Many techniques I have looked up on the EPAk lists online and found the EPAK equivelant, however, for one technique so far, I have not been able to find an EPAK version: Windmill guard.

    It goes as follows:

    For a right punch
    1. Step with your left foot to 10:30, inward parry with left hand followd by and outward extended block and grab the wqrist with the right hand
    2. Front round kick (wheel kick) to midsection.
    3> Extensions include landing with the right leg at 5:00 and performing a left leg round kick to the back of the attackeers knee as a leg sweep.



    Sir:

    have a look at "dance of darkness." this move is on tatum's website and incorporates the above to a degree. Kicks are nothing more than an extended knee.

    Regards,
    Carl

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerkarate View Post
    From that description it kind of sounds like Reversing Mace on the other side with an insertion (round house to the stomach) and deletion (back knuckle).


    With a tiny modification this makes a great sparring technique
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    With a tiny modification this makes a great sparring technique

    Look at evading the storm
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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpregler View Post
    My school is in the middle of a transition. They are changing from a cmbination of Tracy and EPAK to EPAK only. Many techniques I have looked up on the EPAk lists online and found the EPAK equivelant, however, for one technique so far, I have not been able to find an EPAK version: Windmill guard.

    It goes as follows:

    For a right punch
    1. Step with your left foot to 10:30, inward parry with left hand followd by and outward extended block and grab the wqrist with the right hand
    2. Front round kick (wheel kick) to midsection.
    3> Extensions include landing with the right leg at 5:00 and performing a left leg round kick to the back of the attackeers knee as a leg sweep.

    I also look at the opening section of Long 4 as a variation of Windmill Guard. I originally learned Returning Viper off of a windmill block (taught to me by Mike Donovan) too.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    We did Evading the Storm with a left inward parry/right extended open hand out ward block , and then pretty much the way Mr.Broad wrote it out in his tek post awhile back.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpregler View Post
    For a right punch
    1. Step with your left foot to 10:30, inward parry with left hand followd by and outward extended block and grab the wqrist with the right hand
    2. Front round kick (wheel kick) to midsection.
    3> Extensions include landing with the right leg at 5:00 and performing a left leg round kick to the back of the attackeers knee as a leg sweep.
    You cannot step to 10:30 and then parry "IF" he is throwing a right straight punch. He will hit you as you step.

    You can intercept at his "point of no-return" and then step to his angle of cancelation.

    You CAN step to 9 as you left parry simultaneously "IF" it's done at his "point of no-return".

    If you do step to 10:30, then you are too close to right wheel kick him to the midsection (that's a pretty BIG TARGET???).

    IF you step to 9 you can wheel kick him to the testicles, or the solar plexus, or the liver, or the spleen, or the ziphoid process, or the bladder, etc.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    You cannot step to 10:30 and then parry "IF" he is throwing a right straight punch. He will hit you as you step.

    You can intercept at his "point of no-return" and then step to his angle of cancelation.

    You CAN step to 9 as you left parry simultaneously "IF" it's done at his "point of no-return".

    If you do step to 10:30, then you are too close to right wheel kick him to the midsection (that's a pretty BIG TARGET???).

    IF you step to 9 you can wheel kick him to the testicles, or the solar plexus, or the liver, or the spleen, or the ziphoid process, or the bladder, etc.
    The faster we run the technique the closer to 9 o'clock I really step. When I first learned it, I think I was taught stepping closer to 9:00 than 10:30, it is only more recently that the instructor had me stepping so close to the punch.

    We are taught the target in this in the mid section area, but we are free to choose which of the mid-section targets we go for. Usually if the left foot is forward the groin is opened, if he is right foot forward, the solar plexus is my usual target as his groin target is more closed up and harder to strike. If his body turn is more extreme I usually strike for the area below the ribs kidneyt area.

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    Default Re: Windmill Guard: an equivielent in EPAK?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpregler View Post
    The faster we run the technique the closer to 9 o'clock I really step. When I first learned it, I think I was taught stepping closer to 9:00 than 10:30, it is only more recently that the instructor had me stepping so close to the punch.

    We are taught the target in this in the mid section area, but we are free to choose which of the mid-section targets we go for. Usually if the left foot is forward the groin is opened, if he is right foot forward, the solar plexus is my usual target as his groin target is more closed up and harder to strike. If his body turn is more extreme I usually strike for the area below the ribs kidneyt area.
    It depends on the striking surface of the foot. The instep allows for certain targets,the ball for others.
    Brad Marshall SP
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