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Thread: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

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    Default Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    The KenpoTalk Community is being built on several pillars.
    Those pillars include:
    - Respect
    - Consideration
    - Open Mindedness
    - Compassion
    - Courtesy.
    In the past, on other sites we have tried many different means to develop such things. It has often failed, leaving us frustrated when dealing with those individuals who often seem to argue simply for the sake of arguing. Our mission is to preserve, explore and promote the martial arts known as Kenpo and Kempo, their roots, and development, and their future, as well as to provide a positive, open and accessible community for all those who seek that knowledge.

    To that end, we will not allow those individuals to whom argument, bullying, arrogance, antagonism and disrespect are their means of forum interaction to long survive here. We welcome debate, we encourage exploration, but those who argue simply to argue are not welcome and will be removed without notice.

    We do not care if you have 40+ years in the arts, and a wall full of paper and awards. We believe that one of the aspects of the martial journey is a maturing of character, of becoming a more "enlightened" individual. Not to simply learn a better way to "beat people up".

    This site is open to those who train in any Kenpo or Kempo art/style/lineage. Those who are unable to participate in a positive manner, will soon find themselves unwelcome here.
    For ANY and ALL KenpoTalk issues, please use theContact Us link here or at page bottom right. Do NOT PM me for site support.

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    Wink Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Good one Bob,

    I do believe that sometimes all the above are paramont in believing you
    can go whip anyone and anycountry and others beware. It is not always the best in conversations and the name calling should be held to a minumum.
    But most of what does go on amongst these talk-boards, is to espouse your own agenda.

    What I have seen in the past and if they don't agree fine.

    One of the things I have noticed in the past among the plebs is the lack of arguing. I mean like arguing as in some of the stuff you and robert use to do. But you arn't and weren't plebs.

    But I guess those days are over. One thing that is interesting is the various avitars that depict fantasy and what one wants others to beleive.
    Like lions and tigers and dragons etc. I get a kick out of that one.

    To bad for there are things that could get ironed out and not just pranced about like a couple of elementarty kids in their first fight.

    I think this is one of the things where the experienced moderator has an upper hand.

    Kenpo, as in 'closed fist/open hand' and no weapons? Pretty much going to loose if you know what I mean. I can see what you mean if you are talking open hand or empty hand as in 'karate'.

    If the arts are full of swords and sticks and knives, guns in level 4. Where does that leave Kenpo. Pretty much at the back of the pack, in my opinion.
    But hey, maybe that is why we fight with guns, knives, artillary and anything you can get your hands on. Maybe that is why they call it war (as in Martial Art) Sun Tzu was a true warrior? What would he had said to all this?

    How do you talk about all those things and not ruffle some feathers? Have you ever read 'a nation of cowards'. By Jeffrey R. Snyder?

    Just a few thoughts that I am kicking around. Nice website hope it keeps going.

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    No offense, Gary, but you seem like you're rambling on there. Kind of all over the board. Can you give me the Cliff's Notes version and tell me what your point is? I'm trying to get a handle for what your position is on this.

    thanks, one way or the other...


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    Wink Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Hi Brother John,

    No offense taken, pick something and we can discuss it.
    What should it be? Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and/or KenpoTalk. I tried to cover them all.

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John
    No offense, Gary, but you seem like you're rambling on there. Kind of all over the board. Can you give me the Cliff's Notes version and tell me what your point is? I'm trying to get a handle for what your position is on this.

    thanks, one way or the other...


    Your Brother
    John


    BTW: How do you like MY avatar?
    Gary, ramble well that doesn't sound right!

    Your avatar is cool BTW

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Shouldn't subtle ridicule be included in this thread topic?

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger
    Shouldn't subtle ridicule be included in this thread topic?
    ...and how about outright ridicule...that's always fun
    Susan A. Spann

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    Member of the Estrogen Mafia and Proud Owner of THIS Thread (FOREVER D:< )



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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Hi Brother John,

    I do like your avatar. Very infinite.

    To others,

    Ridicule is in the mind of the beholder. Simple ridicule is also, similar.
    The difficulty I find in clear and total cohisive thought patterns, is the fact that no matter how well you present them they are suspect by many and since we are faceless as a general rule, quite a bit is said that would not be said to your face (unless you were friends or enemies).

    Some can get away with it, while others cannot. I notice on this board that quite a few of the people who made up a great amount of the post's have departed and gone other places or have changed their handle.

    I am, for discussion of the arts, but much of the time it becomes very tiresome. So when someone is inclined to as 'Plato' said, 'argue for arguements sake'...(or something like that) some of the thinner skinned amongst us are offended. This unfortunatly occurs.

    On these boards there are many who don't even do what they say they do (as in martial arts). Yet they do have a way of sounding like they do.
    To belittle is a favorite past time on these boards, it generally starts off with an apology of sorts but it is just a guise.

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    There are people who can pull off a seemingly incoherent ramble (Roddy Piper, George Carlin, George Bush, Ozzy Osbourne), and those who when they do it simply create a collective "Huh".

    I'm not too concerned with those who ramble, though given the nature of the media, one would hope for clearer attempts in communications.

    My concerns in this particular case focus on the types of individuals to whom anarchy is key, that might makes right, that prefer a "last man standing, anything goes" style of discussion. These often hide behind the anonymity of the Internet, thrive on the chaos they bring, and drive other good people away.

    I have often likened my approach to forums as inviting someone into your home or school and hanging out. Just as I wouldn't invite a chest thumper, a showoff, a knowitall or similar into my home, I will no longer tolerate them or their ilk on my boards. I run these sites in part to give something back to the communities. In the past, I have gotten so many hate filled messages from people who are incapable of acting beyond a 5th grade schoolyard level, that the fun, the enjoyment of running a site was destroyed. 4 years later, rather than wearing myself out trying to negotiate, I've decided that such behavior will not stand on any of my communities.

    One of the biggest complaints I've heard from "the top" on why they don't visit forums, is that whenever they open their mouths, a hundred 'know it alls' jump all over them. My goal is that will not be allowed to happen here. I want this to be someplace that the whole kenpo/kempo community can feel comfortable visiting, not just 1 or 2 lineages, and not just a small 'clique'.

    I do not do kenpo. I do not do kempo. I know little of the politics, have no affiliation with any organization. I think as a result, I can provide a true 'neutral zone', so that we can all have fun.

    Think of this place as your living room, your school lobby, the meal after a camp. Our goal here is to discuss a deep, diverse and exciting grouping of arts in a relaxed, yet professional manner. We intend to meet our goal.
    For ANY and ALL KenpoTalk issues, please use theContact Us link here or at page bottom right. Do NOT PM me for site support.

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for the update, I have been checking around and trying to figure what has been happening and now I have put 3 and 3 together and I believe I came up with 6.

    I agree with you regarding your last post, I guess you are feeling like others, who have put a lot of work into something and are unhappy with the way it goes at times.
    I hope the simple message you are sending out will help clear some of the cobwebs. I know it helped me (last one).

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Some of the best times I had with uncle Dan was when we had a particularly great evening at the dojo and we would go to a little dinning place and have pot stickers and inside out pork and other great dishes (god, I'm missing this) and we would all talk about what just when on like a bunch of over excited school girls. The true love and enjoyment for the art was tangible. And by this hashing out, sometimes, just sometimes, we would come to a greater understanding of what we just went through. Nobody when to said place with the ideal that they are going to tear apart somebody and/or their foundation. Everybody was there for the love and enjoyment of this great art. And maybe, just maybe, uncle Dan was going to blow our minds away with another insight into Kenpo.
    This, my friends, my family by choice, this is what I've been seeing here. Perhaps this is what Bob is talking about. I hope so. Because this is what I'm hearing.

    Sorry about the sermon,
    Preacherman

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Everybody can be a tough guy, knowitall in an anonoymous place like the internet. The best thing the site owner can do is draw a firm, straight, dark line and hold it firm. Don't draw it too tightly though, even considering all how much people hate forum jerks, they just as much hate a totalitarian controlled forum where they know their every word is scrutinized.

    Don't over-moderate or soon you won't have a forum...or not people in it anyway, ya gotta let nature take it's course on some occassions. It's hard to detect sarcasm and wit over a typed message sometimes, people take things the wrong way as well...sometimes ya just let nature take it's course and thing work themselves out.

    My point is, don't jump too fast or too hard on everything that you percieve as Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying or Closedmindedness.



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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Our preference is light moderation. Preacherman has the right idea.

    For the most part, we don't have to do too much. We get few reports in, and that means we can spend more time enjoying the board ourselves, rather than playing with handcuffs and paperwork. When we have a problem, we will usually try to work with folks. Some, refuse to play by anyone elses rules though, and those people, no matter how knowledgeable they may be, have to go in order to preserve the overall health of the site.
    For ANY and ALL KenpoTalk issues, please use theContact Us link here or at page bottom right. Do NOT PM me for site support.

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    The truly ironic thing is that at one point or another, Bob and/or I have had personal contact with many of those that cause the most trouble. We really do not want to come down on anyone, but more importantly, we want a board that makes everyone feel welcome. Sometimes, to make the many welcome, the few must be barred.
    Just because you do something one way, does not mean that everyone else does it that way, or that it is even the correct way.

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hubbard
    Our preference is light moderation. Preacherman has the right idea.

    For the most part, we don't have to do too much. We get few reports in, and that means we can spend more time enjoying the board ourselves, rather than playing with handcuffs and paperwork. When we have a problem, we will usually try to work with folks. Some, refuse to play by anyone elses rules though, and those people, no matter how knowledgeable they may be, have to go in order to preserve the overall health of the site.
    Well, in a forum this size, yes, work should be kinda slow, but, as it grows it could get very busy...that said, not trying to tell you how to run your site or anything, just sharing some lessoned I have learned over the years in this internet community thing...it can REALLY get ugly. When starting my home studio recording community I had (and still have) the same goal as you, keep it clean, fun and productive, not allowing anyone to smack talk or belittle anyone else...it's a tough thing to do online sometimes...I would suspect as it grows it could even be harder in a community of fighters. I am currently trying to grow a mixed martial arts site, it's slow going, but I am prepared for attitudes to come in moreso than other sites...



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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    Usually the acts of the leaders are a clear example to everyone else how we should act. It's just like in the dojo, if you are a bloodthirsty mean sucker, your going to produce a bunch of bloodthirsty mean suckers.

    But, unfortunately, you always have ones that don't play well with others. Then it's time to use them as the uke for your favorite pain producing technique .... did I type that out loud.. lol Sorry, everyone has at least thought of doing this. Come on, admit it.

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    Default Re: Arrogance, Antagonism, Bullying, Closed Mindedness and KenpoTalk

    ::shocked and uphauled::





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