Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,323
    Thanks
    2,223
    Thanked 4,318 Times in 1,408 Posts

    Default Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    As many may have heard, and either decided they dig, or despise, Doc Chapel has integrated some rather profound ideas into his kenpo, based on the material he and Mr. Parker were working on in their latter years together. Rather than re-invent the wheel, these advanced kenpo concepts have been infused into much of the existing system structure of kenpo. I have had the chance to observe, discuss, and even learn a bit about some of these from Mr. Chapel. I encourage any who may have heard about SL-4, but not experienced it, to do the work necessary to meet with Doc and experience his ideas and technical expressions first-hand.

    I can assure you: You will not be disappointed.

    Regards,

    Dr. David W. Crouch, DC, MA

    PS -- I look forward to his postings on this site regarding his innovations that remain, very much, kenpo.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  2. #2
    dubljay is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Blue Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    416
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Can you explain some of the SL-4 concepts? I just want to get an idea of what is done differently, compare it to my current knowledge base and determine if there are any gaps that may have gone unnoticed.


    -Josh-
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,323
    Thanks
    2,223
    Thanked 4,318 Times in 1,408 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by dubljay
    Can you explain some of the SL-4 concepts? I just want to get an idea of what is done differently, compare it to my current knowledge base and determine if there are any gaps that may have gone unnoticed.


    -Josh-
    Start with a couple of underlying assumptions, then start stacking the framework to turn concept to application. Most, if not all, are much easier to show, then describe.

    Assumption #1: The body works best when ni a state of maximum anatomical alignment and neurophysiologic congruency.

    That means you have to have your own ducks in a row with how your body's parts are associated relative to each other. Also means you have to modify the intent and targeting of some of the techniques to misalign your opponent.

    Something as benign as stepping forward into a right neutral bow with a right inward block to counter an opponents right punch attack becomes the subject for many paragraphs. I'll see if I can construct a post the describes the application, accompanied with what may be best described as "thought experiments" around the actions of SL-4 application. Right now, gotta get to bed. Missed my own class tonight, and am quite depressed about it. Gotta get up ni the early M, and do it all again. I'll get you a more thorough answer with examples tomorrow nght.

    Regards,

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,323
    Thanks
    2,223
    Thanked 4,318 Times in 1,408 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Best way to eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

    Some of the themes that stand out (and remember...I'm a novice in SL-4) are:

    1. Structural Integrity through Anatomical Alignment. Many moves in karate, kung-fu, and kenpo inherently compromise the bodys best stability, in exchange for appearance, speed, reach, or just due to a lack of knowledge about what a tight ship looks/feels like. As Mr. Chapel says, everything matters. If the fingers of your palm heel are slightly bent, it can send mixed messages back to the rest of your body, affecting things seemingly unrelated...such as strength of your entire stance. Much of the structural integrity training is about identifying the small positional and executive mistakes that compromise stability & strength though integrity. In many kenpo schools, the speed with which a technique or series is executed, and how hard the practitioner can throw that tech at top speed, are criteria for evaluation and performance. Net effect: Lots of fast guys in kenpo who lack the core stability to be knock-out effective with their shots. They have to plan for technical failure, because no single shot will have the maximum desired effect. In contrast, SL4 techs are done with much more deliberate attention to detail; training is done with the expectation of success. Speed is left to evolve as a by-product of familiarity with keeping the bodys integrity in state, and is not nearly as important as doing it right. New takes on old foot maneuvers and stances become necessary to maintain the integral state. An example is the Platform Alignment Mechanism. Anytime you break stance to engage in a foot maneuver, you subtley negate the supportive neuromuscular relationships that stabilize & lend strength to the pelvis and spine, coordinated with the lower extremities. That means, settling into your new stance, your ability to maintain position (as well as execute sound techniques from it) is compromised. Weak. Solution? Lightly stamp the heel of the foot not most recently moved. Example: If in left neutral bow, and step through forward to right neutral bow, part of settling into that right neutral bow is to stamp the left foot after your right foot has settled. Just paying attention to this detail alone, and reviewing each kenpo technique to ensure the idea is honored, will absorb hours of your time.

    Also related to YOUR OWN structural integrity...joint and body position. Many of the blocks used in kenpo fail to properly enage active synergists for maximum stability. Using just the upward block as an example, most martial artists (not just kenpo folk) have upward blocks that, when in the end position, can be pulled easily out of position with downward pressure...pressure in the direction of contact. In the state of being anatomically aligned, with indexes and alignment mechanisms in place, you can do a hanging pull-up off the upward block of an SL4 kenpoist. Not that blocks are supposed to hang out there in space like that strategically, but it speaks to the subtle, yet profound, changes that facilitate muscle groups to act in greater harmony than is experienced in general training.

    2. Indexes. The best way I can think to describe an index for understanding (without being able to show it) is to say that, for various movements of the limbs and bodyparts, there are specific pre-positions one must enage in to recruit all available muscular synergists and achieve/maintain alignment+integrity. Sort of like c o c king your arm prior to throwing a ball. Indexes, however, are more than just rearing back to heave a blow. Let's use some of the upper extremity indexes as examples. Extremes of internal or external rotation at the shoulder joint attenuate synergists, place a tension into the antagonist prior to the strike (which, during the strike, aids in maintaining coordination & joint stability...different from Bruce Lee's assertion that one should strive to turn off the antagonists during a strike), and also places a plyometric pre-stretch on the fibers of the agonist muscles. Some indexes travel through several positions on their way to their destinations, as part of their priming. For example, the Inward Block alone (stepping forward, as in the beginning of Long One)...starts with your hand at your side, palm facing forward, fingers pointing down to the earth; then bends at the wrist so the fingers point sideways away from you, palm still facing forward; then rises upward in the lateral plane of the body to a position similar to the ending point for an outward extended block (similar, but not the same), and only then jets forward with a stepping foot maneuver and a slap check from the opposite hand. Small, seemingly unrelated movements that prime the shoulder muscles for best coordination and harmony of strength during delivery. But when that inward block lands, it's like a 300 lb log dropping densely into the point of contact. And again, you could hang from it and do pull-ups. The difference between a block and a strike is more than intent alone; a strike needs to be able to do damage, and these pre-positioning components prime the block to be a strike. When you first see it, it seems to violate the point-of-origin-to-point-of-contact principle, and seems like it would take too long to be effective...like it would be slow. But after playing with it for only an hour or so, you end up with a very solid defense that responds as rapidly as the short-hand versions of blocks do.

    So, in a nutshell, I would characterize "indexes" as pre-positions that recruit and attenuate synergists, and ensure total proprioceptive participation of the muscles and joints of the body, relative to the technique or basic being executed. To put it in perspective, think about 5 Swords. The opening inward block alone takes substantial retraining to get right with indexes and alignment mechanisms, and you can feel that block resonate through your entire body when you're the uke. That same attention to strength and stability through maximum alignment is paid to every other strike & stance change or foot maneuver in the technique, with devastating effects. And there is no room for tailoring. There is a right way to index, and many wrong ways. Every move is strength tested from the directions of incidental resistance (i.e., someone leans all of their body weight in to your palm heel to see if your alignment will hold, which it will if you've indexed and aligned correctly) to make sure you're doing it right.

    3. Nerve Cavity & Meridian Strikes. No. Not the same as the silly Dillman stuff. Let me provide some context. As someone who does deep tissue myofascial release, I know there are muscles & muscle layers that do not "present" without me prompting the patient to change position in some way. For example, I had a woman today with a deep lesion in the muscles that run parallel to the spine, right up against it, between the shoulder blades. She has been to some of Southern Californias premiere massage therapists and bodyworkers, and no one has ever been able to "put their hands on it". So, I lay her on her side, have her tuck her chin to her chest & round out her back, then reach with her hand down towards her toes. These movements collectively either move superficial layers of muscle out of the way, or neurologically & mechanically inhibit the muscles closer to the skin, so I can press through them to reach the deeper tissues. This is called getting a target to "present".

    The self-defense technique targets in SL4 are very specific. In general AK, a technique may consist of something like "counter-grab opponents hand to pin; foreknuckle (dragons head) to ribs, followed by kick to groin." In SL4, that same technique gets revisited: The pin would also include tensioning the wrist & digging into a pressure point on the wrist while tractioning the limb & it's major nerves, in order to get a specific acupuncture point under the ribs to present. The foreknuckle strikes that spot, which causes an acupressure point in the thigh to present. The kick to the groin is aimed at the spot, instead of the family jewels, because it causes another point to open, and so on. The strikes are deliberately sequenced to cause a specific effect. Doc calls this "destructive sequencing". It takes an existing kenpo concept to a next level. I'm sure you've seen stuff like "whack him in the nuts to get him to tip forward at the waist, so you can reach his head easier". Same idea, more specific application.

    4. Contact Manipulation. As Doc has pointed out on MT, Parker mentions this, but doesn't expand. The quick-dry-easy, but not accurate, explanation is to say there are jujutsu control holds grafted on to the self-defense techniques. That's what it will look like to the naive observer. But it would be painfully misleading. Doc could do a much better job than I describing the intracacies of contact manipulation, and has done so on MT threads. I will avoid re-inventing the wheel, poorly.

    If you think about different Seniors as offering different specialties,... SL-4 is a super-technical, brainiac version of kenpo that requires a lot of attention to detail. To understand it well, you have to learn several elements of anatomy & physiology, neurophysiology, functional anatomy & biomechanics, chinese medicine theory & meridian access points, neuroanatomy, and a whole bunch more. Luckily, to do it, you only have to pay attention. Closely. I overheard one guy saying that Chapel doesn't do Parker's kenpo anymore. I would beg to differ; he has a fierce loyalty to the memory and legacy of his dear friend and our systems founder, and has worked dilligently to implement ideas they were exploring and refining. No, not super-secret stuff; not "he only showed me the good stuff", as folks are wont to offer in criticism: Watching video of Parker towards the end, you can see how he is doing things differently than the people around him...people who thought they were doing what he was doing, but clearly weren't. Parker was working on defining and cleaning up Advanced Kenpo Concepts (see his gi sleeve in the last videos he made...that relates to the project). His active mind was always exploring innovative ways to break new ground, or improve on old. Chapel has structured SL4 to pay deliberate and specific attention to the details of these differences, and ensure quality control over the end product by demanding perfection through adherence to the specifics.

    Please note: I am not da bomb at SL4. I'm a newbie, working on my basics. And that is after spending over 30 years training in kenpo under various notables (and some not-so-notables). Though I try to get out there to train, my work schedule as a Chiro often doesn't let me out in time to get to class. Any misrepresentations or under-representations are my own, and not Docs. I'm trying to take ideas that are fairly complex, and put them in terms that most readers will be able to relate to. That, by the very nature of the task, requires simplifying the complex, and complicating the simple. Not zen, just hard to relate by words alone.

    I first visited Doc as an interested skeptic, pretty sure I'd managed to see it all -- in one form or another -- over the years. After watching one of his belt tests, I thought he just did some things to be different (such as the jujutsu extensions to self-defense techniques). Then I had the chance to chat with him, and he very patiently yakked kenpo with me till around 3:00 AM (boy, was my old lady pissed). At the end of that conversation, one word described my state: SOLD! I've done diplomate studies in the Chiropractic versions of physical medicine, sports medicine, and neurology & orthopedics, and my brain was racing with the implications of what we discussed, and what he presented. Everybody does an inward block. Not everybody has standardized a way to engage muscles from the shoulders, back, and pelvic core in their inward block. And he has infused these & other concepts into the core cirriculum of kenpo.

    There are several guys out there saying they are teaching Sub-Level Four/Advanced Kenpo Concepts, but aren't really. All I can say is to feel is to believe.

    There are some "must do's" in the martial arts & in kenpo. Everyone should see what it's like to take on a Gracie in a friendly bout. Everyone should feel what it's like to get your fingers caught in one of Wally Jay's traps, and so on. In kenpo, everyone should do some sparring & training at Bob Whites (I hurl just trying to keep up with the beginners' class...truly awesome man, coach, & kenpoist), everyone should do a Dye technique line, etc., and everyone should work at least briefly with Chapel to see what the next technical dimension in kenpo looks like, and to identify what it feels like to be in a structurally sound state during and between movements.

    Apologies for the long post: Like I said. Easy to show, hard to write.

    Regards,

    Dave
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  5. #5
    dubljay is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Blue Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    416
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Thank you very much Dr. Dave.:smileJap:
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to dubljay For This Useful Post:

    DirtyIrish (03-27-2014)

  7. #6
    Doc's Avatar
    Doc
    Doc is online now
    AKI Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    8,184
    Thanks
    4,131
    Thanked 14,519 Times in 5,394 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house
    Best way to eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

    Some of the themes that stand out (and remember...I'm a novice in SL-4) are:

    1. Structural Integrity through Anatomical Alignment. Many moves in karate, kung-fu, and kenpo inherently compromise the bodys best stability, in exchange for appearance, speed, reach, or just due to a lack of knowledge about what a tight ship looks/feels like. As Mr. Chapel says, everything matters. If the fingers of your palm heel are slightly bent, it can send mixed messages back to the rest of your body, affecting things seemingly unrelated...such as strength of your entire stance. Much of the structural integrity training is about identifying the small positional and executive mistakes that compromise stability & strength though integrity. In many kenpo schools, the speed with which a technique or series is executed, and how hard the practitioner can throw that tech at top speed, are criteria for evaluation and performance. Net effect: Lots of fast guys in kenpo who lack the core stability to be knock-out effective with their shots. They have to plan for technical failure, because no single shot will have the maximum desired effect. In contrast, SL4 techs are done with much more deliberate attention to detail; training is done with the expectation of success. Speed is left to evolve as a by-product of familiarity with keeping the bodys integrity in state, and is not nearly as important as doing it right. New takes on old foot maneuvers and stances become necessary to maintain the integral state. An example is the Platform Alignment Mechanism. Anytime you break stance to engage in a foot maneuver, you subtley negate the supportive neuromuscular relationships that stabilize & lend strength to the pelvis and spine, coordinated with the lower extremities. That means, settling into your new stance, your ability to maintain position (as well as execute sound techniques from it) is compromised. Weak. Solution? Lightly stamp the heel of the foot not most recently moved. Example: If in left neutral bow, and step through forward to right neutral bow, part of settling into that right neutral bow is to stamp the left foot after your right foot has settled. Just paying attention to this detail alone, and reviewing each kenpo technique to ensure the idea is honored, will absorb hours of your time.

    Also related to YOUR OWN structural integrity...joint and body position. Many of the blocks used in kenpo fail to properly enage active synergists for maximum stability. Using just the upward block as an example, most martial artists (not just kenpo folk) have upward blocks that, when in the end position, can be pulled easily out of position with downward pressure...pressure in the direction of contact. In the state of being anatomically aligned, with indexes and alignment mechanisms in place, you can do a hanging pull-up off the upward block of an SL4 kenpoist. Not that blocks are supposed to hang out there in space like that strategically, but it speaks to the subtle, yet profound, changes that facilitate muscle groups to act in greater harmony than is experienced in general training.

    2. Indexes. The best way I can think to describe an index for understanding (without being able to show it) is to say that, for various movements of the limbs and bodyparts, there are specific pre-positions one must enage in to recruit all available muscular synergists and achieve/maintain alignment+integrity. Sort of like c o c king your arm prior to throwing a ball. Indexes, however, are more than just rearing back to heave a blow. Let's use some of the upper extremity indexes as examples. Extremes of internal or external rotation at the shoulder joint attenuate synergists, place a tension into the antagonist prior to the strike (which, during the strike, aids in maintaining coordination & joint stability...different from Bruce Lee's assertion that one should strive to turn off the antagonists during a strike), and also places a plyometric pre-stretch on the fibers of the agonist muscles. Some indexes travel through several positions on their way to their destinations, as part of their priming. For example, the Inward Block alone (stepping forward, as in the beginning of Long One)...starts with your hand at your side, palm facing forward, fingers pointing down to the earth; then bends at the wrist so the fingers point sideways away from you, palm still facing forward; then rises upward in the lateral plane of the body to a position similar to the ending point for an outward extended block (similar, but not the same), and only then jets forward with a stepping foot maneuver and a slap check from the opposite hand. Small, seemingly unrelated movements that prime the shoulder muscles for best coordination and harmony of strength during delivery. But when that inward block lands, it's like a 300 lb log dropping densely into the point of contact. And again, you could hang from it and do pull-ups. The difference between a block and a strike is more than intent alone; a strike needs to be able to do damage, and these pre-positioning components prime the block to be a strike. When you first see it, it seems to violate the point-of-origin-to-point-of-contact principle, and seems like it would take too long to be effective...like it would be slow. But after playing with it for only an hour or so, you end up with a very solid defense that responds as rapidly as the short-hand versions of blocks do.

    So, in a nutshell, I would characterize "indexes" as pre-positions that recruit and attenuate synergists, and ensure total proprioceptive participation of the muscles and joints of the body, relative to the technique or basic being executed. To put it in perspective, think about 5 Swords. The opening inward block alone takes substantial retraining to get right with indexes and alignment mechanisms, and you can feel that block resonate through your entire body when you're the uke. That same attention to strength and stability through maximum alignment is paid to every other strike & stance change or foot maneuver in the technique, with devastating effects. And there is no room for tailoring. There is a right way to index, and many wrong ways. Every move is strength tested from the directions of incidental resistance (i.e., someone leans all of their body weight in to your palm heel to see if your alignment will hold, which it will if you've indexed and aligned correctly) to make sure you're doing it right.

    3. Nerve Cavity & Meridian Strikes. No. Not the same as the silly Dillman stuff. Let me provide some context. As someone who does deep tissue myofascial release, I know there are muscles & muscle layers that do not "present" without me prompting the patient to change position in some way. For example, I had a woman today with a deep lesion in the muscles that run parallel to the spine, right up against it, between the shoulder blades. She has been to some of Southern Californias premiere massage therapists and bodyworkers, and no one has ever been able to "put their hands on it". So, I lay her on her side, have her tuck her chin to her chest & round out her back, then reach with her hand down towards her toes. These movements collectively either move superficial layers of muscle out of the way, or neurologically & mechanically inhibit the muscles closer to the skin, so I can press through them to reach the deeper tissues. This is called getting a target to "present".

    The self-defense technique targets in SL4 are very specific. In general AK, a technique may consist of something like "counter-grab opponents hand to pin; foreknuckle (dragons head) to ribs, followed by kick to groin." In SL4, that same technique gets revisited: The pin would also include tensioning the wrist & digging into a pressure point on the wrist while tractioning the limb & it's major nerves, in order to get a specific acupuncture point under the ribs to present. The foreknuckle strikes that spot, which causes an acupressure point in the thigh to present. The kick to the groin is aimed at the spot, instead of the family jewels, because it causes another point to open, and so on. The strikes are deliberately sequenced to cause a specific effect. Doc calls this "destructive sequencing". It takes an existing kenpo concept to a next level. I'm sure you've seen stuff like "whack him in the nuts to get him to tip forward at the waist, so you can reach his head easier". Same idea, more specific application.

    4. Contact Manipulation. As Doc has pointed out on MT, Parker mentions this, but doesn't expand. The quick-dry-easy, but not accurate, explanation is to say there are jujutsu control holds grafted on to the self-defense techniques. That's what it will look like to the naive observer. But it would be painfully misleading. Doc could do a much better job than I describing the intracacies of contact manipulation, and has done so on MT threads. I will avoid re-inventing the wheel, poorly.

    If you think about different Seniors as offering different specialties,... SL-4 is a super-technical, brainiac version of kenpo that requires a lot of attention to detail. To understand it well, you have to learn several elements of anatomy & physiology, neurophysiology, functional anatomy & biomechanics, chinese medicine theory & meridian access points, neuroanatomy, and a whole bunch more. Luckily, to do it, you only have to pay attention. Closely. I overheard one guy saying that Chapel doesn't do Parker's kenpo anymore. I would beg to differ; he has a fierce loyalty to the memory and legacy of his dear friend and our systems founder, and has worked dilligently to implement ideas they were exploring and refining. No, not super-secret stuff; not "he only showed me the good stuff", as folks are wont to offer in criticism: Watching video of Parker towards the end, you can see how he is doing things differently than the people around him...people who thought they were doing what he was doing, but clearly weren't. Parker was working on defining and cleaning up Advanced Kenpo Concepts (see his gi sleeve in the last videos he made...that relates to the project). His active mind was always exploring innovative ways to break new ground, or improve on old. Chapel has structured SL4 to pay deliberate and specific attention to the details of these differences, and ensure quality control over the end product by demanding perfection through adherence to the specifics.

    Please note: I am not da bomb at SL4. I'm a newbie, working on my basics. And that is after spending over 30 years training in kenpo under various notables (and some not-so-notables). Though I try to get out there to train, my work schedule as a Chiro often doesn't let me out in time to get to class. Any misrepresentations or under-representations are my own, and not Docs. I'm trying to take ideas that are fairly complex, and put them in terms that most readers will be able to relate to. That, by the very nature of the task, requires simplifying the complex, and complicating the simple. Not zen, just hard to relate by words alone.

    I first visited Doc as an interested skeptic, pretty sure I'd managed to see it all -- in one form or another -- over the years. After watching one of his belt tests, I thought he just did some things to be different (such as the jujutsu extensions to self-defense techniques). Then I had the chance to chat with him, and he very patiently yakked kenpo with me till around 3:00 AM (boy, was my old lady pissed). At the end of that conversation, one word described my state: SOLD! I've done diplomate studies in the Chiropractic versions of physical medicine, sports medicine, and neurology & orthopedics, and my brain was racing with the implications of what we discussed, and what he presented. Everybody does an inward block. Not everybody has standardized a way to engage muscles from the shoulders, back, and pelvic core in their inward block. And he has infused these & other concepts into the core cirriculum of kenpo.

    There are several guys out there saying they are teaching Sub-Level Four/Advanced Kenpo Concepts, but aren't really. All I can say is to feel is to believe.

    There are some "must do's" in the martial arts & in kenpo. Everyone should see what it's like to take on a Gracie in a friendly bout. Everyone should feel what it's like to get your fingers caught in one of Wally Jay's traps, and so on. In kenpo, everyone should do some sparring & training at Bob Whites (I hurl just trying to keep up with the beginners' class...truly awesome man, coach, & kenpoist), everyone should do a Dye technique line, etc., and everyone should work at least briefly with Chapel to see what the next technical dimension in kenpo looks like, and to identify what it feels like to be in a structurally sound state during and between movements.

    Apologies for the long post: Like I said. Easy to show, hard to write.

    Regards,

    Dave
    Whatchootalkinboutwillis?
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,323
    Thanks
    2,223
    Thanked 4,318 Times in 1,408 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    Whatchootalkinboutwillis?
    I dunno. It was late. I was tired. And there wasn't nearly enough junk food in the house.

    Pardon the drain bamage,

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  9. #8
    Doc's Avatar
    Doc
    Doc is online now
    AKI Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    8,184
    Thanks
    4,131
    Thanked 14,519 Times in 5,394 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house
    I dunno. It was late. I was tired. And there wasn't nearly enough junk food in the house.

    Pardon the drain bamage,

    D.
    It's DANE BRAMAGE.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

  10. #9
    zealous Kenpoist Guest

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    neurophysiologic congruency
    That sounds interesting. Could you help me get a handle on what it means and more importantly how it applies w/in your Kenpo?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,323
    Thanks
    2,223
    Thanked 4,318 Times in 1,408 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by zealous Kenpoist
    That sounds interesting. Could you help me get a handle on what it means and more importantly how it applies w/in your Kenpo?
    Doc has been on a "fingers and wrists" kick lately. Nerve signals go from brain to body, and from body to brain. Mess with one part of the loop, and you mes with the sum total of the parts, and what they create. More later; gotta get some sleep.

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  12. #11
    kenposikh's Avatar
    kenposikh is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Orange Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Seaton, Devon. United Kingdom
    Posts
    134
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house
    Best way to eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

    Some of the themes that stand out (and remember...I'm a novice in SL-4) are:

    1. Structural Integrity through Anatomical Alignment. Many moves in karate, kung-fu, and kenpo inherently compromise the bodys best stability, in exchange for appearance, speed, reach, or just due to a lack of knowledge about what a tight ship looks/feels like. As Mr. Chapel says, everything matters. If the fingers of your palm heel are slightly bent, it can send mixed messages back to the rest of your body, affecting things seemingly unrelated...such as strength of your entire stance. Much of the structural integrity training is about identifying the small positional and executive mistakes that compromise stability & strength though integrity. In many kenpo schools, the speed with which a technique or series is executed, and how hard the practitioner can throw that tech at top speed, are criteria for evaluation and performance. Net effect: Lots of fast guys in kenpo who lack the core stability to be knock-out effective with their shots. They have to plan for technical failure, because no single shot will have the maximum desired effect. In contrast, SL4 techs are done with much more deliberate attention to detail; training is done with the expectation of success. Speed is left to evolve as a by-product of familiarity with keeping the bodys integrity in state, and is not nearly as important as doing it right. New takes on old foot maneuvers and stances become necessary to maintain the integral state. An example is the Platform Alignment Mechanism. Anytime you break stance to engage in a foot maneuver, you subtley negate the supportive neuromuscular relationships that stabilize & lend strength to the pelvis and spine, coordinated with the lower extremities. That means, settling into your new stance, your ability to maintain position (as well as execute sound techniques from it) is compromised. Weak. Solution? Lightly stamp the heel of the foot not most recently moved. Example: If in left neutral bow, and step through forward to right neutral bow, part of settling into that right neutral bow is to stamp the left foot after your right foot has settled. Just paying attention to this detail alone, and reviewing each kenpo technique to ensure the idea is honored, will absorb hours of your time.

    Also related to YOUR OWN structural integrity...joint and body position. Many of the blocks used in kenpo fail to properly enage active synergists for maximum stability. Using just the upward block as an example, most martial artists (not just kenpo folk) have upward blocks that, when in the end position, can be pulled easily out of position with downward pressure...pressure in the direction of contact. In the state of being anatomically aligned, with indexes and alignment mechanisms in place, you can do a hanging pull-up off the upward block of an SL4 kenpoist. Not that blocks are supposed to hang out there in space like that strategically, but it speaks to the subtle, yet profound, changes that facilitate muscle groups to act in greater harmony than is experienced in general training.

    2. Indexes. The best way I can think to describe an index for understanding (without being able to show it) is to say that, for various movements of the limbs and bodyparts, there are specific pre-positions one must enage in to recruit all available muscular synergists and achieve/maintain alignment+integrity. Sort of like c o c king your arm prior to throwing a ball. Indexes, however, are more than just rearing back to heave a blow. Let's use some of the upper extremity indexes as examples. Extremes of internal or external rotation at the shoulder joint attenuate synergists, place a tension into the antagonist prior to the strike (which, during the strike, aids in maintaining coordination & joint stability...different from Bruce Lee's assertion that one should strive to turn off the antagonists during a strike), and also places a plyometric pre-stretch on the fibers of the agonist muscles. Some indexes travel through several positions on their way to their destinations, as part of their priming. For example, the Inward Block alone (stepping forward, as in the beginning of Long One)...starts with your hand at your side, palm facing forward, fingers pointing down to the earth; then bends at the wrist so the fingers point sideways away from you, palm still facing forward; then rises upward in the lateral plane of the body to a position similar to the ending point for an outward extended block (similar, but not the same), and only then jets forward with a stepping foot maneuver and a slap check from the opposite hand. Small, seemingly unrelated movements that prime the shoulder muscles for best coordination and harmony of strength during delivery. But when that inward block lands, it's like a 300 lb log dropping densely into the point of contact. And again, you could hang from it and do pull-ups. The difference between a block and a strike is more than intent alone; a strike needs to be able to do damage, and these pre-positioning components prime the block to be a strike. When you first see it, it seems to violate the point-of-origin-to-point-of-contact principle, and seems like it would take too long to be effective...like it would be slow. But after playing with it for only an hour or so, you end up with a very solid defense that responds as rapidly as the short-hand versions of blocks do.

    So, in a nutshell, I would characterize "indexes" as pre-positions that recruit and attenuate synergists, and ensure total proprioceptive participation of the muscles and joints of the body, relative to the technique or basic being executed. To put it in perspective, think about 5 Swords. The opening inward block alone takes substantial retraining to get right with indexes and alignment mechanisms, and you can feel that block resonate through your entire body when you're the uke. That same attention to strength and stability through maximum alignment is paid to every other strike & stance change or foot maneuver in the technique, with devastating effects. And there is no room for tailoring. There is a right way to index, and many wrong ways. Every move is strength tested from the directions of incidental resistance (i.e., someone leans all of their body weight in to your palm heel to see if your alignment will hold, which it will if you've indexed and aligned correctly) to make sure you're doing it right.

    3. Nerve Cavity & Meridian Strikes. No. Not the same as the silly Dillman stuff. Let me provide some context. As someone who does deep tissue myofascial release, I know there are muscles & muscle layers that do not "present" without me prompting the patient to change position in some way. For example, I had a woman today with a deep lesion in the muscles that run parallel to the spine, right up against it, between the shoulder blades. She has been to some of Southern Californias premiere massage therapists and bodyworkers, and no one has ever been able to "put their hands on it". So, I lay her on her side, have her tuck her chin to her chest & round out her back, then reach with her hand down towards her toes. These movements collectively either move superficial layers of muscle out of the way, or neurologically & mechanically inhibit the muscles closer to the skin, so I can press through them to reach the deeper tissues. This is called getting a target to "present".

    The self-defense technique targets in SL4 are very specific. In general AK, a technique may consist of something like "counter-grab opponents hand to pin; foreknuckle (dragons head) to ribs, followed by kick to groin." In SL4, that same technique gets revisited: The pin would also include tensioning the wrist & digging into a pressure point on the wrist while tractioning the limb & it's major nerves, in order to get a specific acupuncture point under the ribs to present. The foreknuckle strikes that spot, which causes an acupressure point in the thigh to present. The kick to the groin is aimed at the spot, instead of the family jewels, because it causes another point to open, and so on. The strikes are deliberately sequenced to cause a specific effect. Doc calls this "destructive sequencing". It takes an existing kenpo concept to a next level. I'm sure you've seen stuff like "whack him in the nuts to get him to tip forward at the waist, so you can reach his head easier". Same idea, more specific application.

    4. Contact Manipulation. As Doc has pointed out on MT, Parker mentions this, but doesn't expand. The quick-dry-easy, but not accurate, explanation is to say there are jujutsu control holds grafted on to the self-defense techniques. That's what it will look like to the naive observer. But it would be painfully misleading. Doc could do a much better job than I describing the intracacies of contact manipulation, and has done so on MT threads. I will avoid re-inventing the wheel, poorly.

    If you think about different Seniors as offering different specialties,... SL-4 is a super-technical, brainiac version of kenpo that requires a lot of attention to detail. To understand it well, you have to learn several elements of anatomy & physiology, neurophysiology, functional anatomy & biomechanics, chinese medicine theory & meridian access points, neuroanatomy, and a whole bunch more. Luckily, to do it, you only have to pay attention. Closely. I overheard one guy saying that Chapel doesn't do Parker's kenpo anymore. I would beg to differ; he has a fierce loyalty to the memory and legacy of his dear friend and our systems founder, and has worked dilligently to implement ideas they were exploring and refining. No, not super-secret stuff; not "he only showed me the good stuff", as folks are wont to offer in criticism: Watching video of Parker towards the end, you can see how he is doing things differently than the people around him...people who thought they were doing what he was doing, but clearly weren't. Parker was working on defining and cleaning up Advanced Kenpo Concepts (see his gi sleeve in the last videos he made...that relates to the project). His active mind was always exploring innovative ways to break new ground, or improve on old. Chapel has structured SL4 to pay deliberate and specific attention to the details of these differences, and ensure quality control over the end product by demanding perfection through adherence to the specifics.

    Please note: I am not da bomb at SL4. I'm a newbie, working on my basics. And that is after spending over 30 years training in kenpo under various notables (and some not-so-notables). Though I try to get out there to train, my work schedule as a Chiro often doesn't let me out in time to get to class. Any misrepresentations or under-representations are my own, and not Docs. I'm trying to take ideas that are fairly complex, and put them in terms that most readers will be able to relate to. That, by the very nature of the task, requires simplifying the complex, and complicating the simple. Not zen, just hard to relate by words alone.

    I first visited Doc as an interested skeptic, pretty sure I'd managed to see it all -- in one form or another -- over the years. After watching one of his belt tests, I thought he just did some things to be different (such as the jujutsu extensions to self-defense techniques). Then I had the chance to chat with him, and he very patiently yakked kenpo with me till around 3:00 AM (boy, was my old lady pissed). At the end of that conversation, one word described my state: SOLD! I've done diplomate studies in the Chiropractic versions of physical medicine, sports medicine, and neurology & orthopedics, and my brain was racing with the implications of what we discussed, and what he presented. Everybody does an inward block. Not everybody has standardized a way to engage muscles from the shoulders, back, and pelvic core in their inward block. And he has infused these & other concepts into the core cirriculum of kenpo.

    There are several guys out there saying they are teaching Sub-Level Four/Advanced Kenpo Concepts, but aren't really. All I can say is to feel is to believe.

    There are some "must do's" in the martial arts & in kenpo. Everyone should see what it's like to take on a Gracie in a friendly bout. Everyone should feel what it's like to get your fingers caught in one of Wally Jay's traps, and so on. In kenpo, everyone should do some sparring & training at Bob Whites (I hurl just trying to keep up with the beginners' class...truly awesome man, coach, & kenpoist), everyone should do a Dye technique line, etc., and everyone should work at least briefly with Chapel to see what the next technical dimension in kenpo looks like, and to identify what it feels like to be in a structurally sound state during and between movements.

    Apologies for the long post: Like I said. Easy to show, hard to write.

    Regards,

    Dave
    You know sometimes words are just not enough an excellent post got me thinking. Also HAving Met Dr Chapel and seen him in action I can only say that to feel is truly to believe. I am from the UK and am lucky enough to be able to attend a seminar in May when The Doc (Hope you don't mind me calling you that SIR!!) comes here as a guest of the BKKU.

    The it truly will be a time of sleepless nights and days practising and practising what I am exposed to. It wiull truly be a pleasure.

  13. #12
    Doc's Avatar
    Doc
    Doc is online now
    AKI Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    8,184
    Thanks
    4,131
    Thanked 14,519 Times in 5,394 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by kenposikh
    You know sometimes words are just not enough an excellent post got me thinking. Also HAving Met Dr Chapel and seen him in action I can only say that to feel is truly to believe. I am from the UK and am lucky enough to be able to attend a seminar in May when The Doc (Hope you don't mind me calling you that SIR!!) comes here as a guest of the BKKU.

    The it truly will be a time of sleepless nights and days practising and practising what I am exposed to. It wiull truly be a pleasure.
    You're dead.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

  14. #13
    Danjo's Avatar
    Danjo is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. White Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fullerton California
    Posts
    33
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Dr Dave Wrote: "Speed is left to evolve as a by-product of familiarity with keeping the bodys integrity in state, and is not nearly as important as doing it right. "

    Is this similar to the theory behind Tai Chi, i.e., practice it slowly and the speed will be there when it's needed? I'm curious about the difference between "Proper Anatomical Alignment" versus asthetically pleasing body alignment. Does PAA look different than most of what we see normally? Would it look awkward and less graceful?
    1st degree Black Belt in Kajukenbo (Original Method) under Prof. John Bishop
    Bishop's Kajukenbo Academy, Diamond Bar, CA

  15. #14
    sigung86's Avatar
    sigung86 is offline In Memory of our Departed Friend
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wright City, Missouri, United States, 113653311978716, Wright City, Missouri
    Posts
    1,728
    Thanks
    2,622
    Thanked 1,404 Times in 728 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjo
    Dr Dave Wrote: "Speed is left to evolve as a by-product of familiarity with keeping the bodys integrity in state, and is not nearly as important as doing it right. "

    Is this similar to the theory behind Tai Chi, i.e., practice it slowly and the speed will be there when it's needed? I'm curious about the difference between "Proper Anatomical Alignment" versus asthetically pleasing body alignment. Does PAA look different than most of what we see normally? Would it look awkward and less graceful?
    Hey Danjo!

    I think aesthetics should not be a consideration in fighting arts unless you happen to be an action movies star ... And even Steven "Seagull" doesn't look that good... But Hey... Who am I?

    I won't presume to answer for SL4 folks, as my exposure has been very minimal. But that's never stopped me before... LOL!

    My thought is that slowness breeds familiarity, speed and perfection of alignment, but only if you know what the perfection of alignment is supposed to be.

    But I could be wrong...

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,323
    Thanks
    2,223
    Thanked 4,318 Times in 1,408 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjo
    Dr Dave Wrote: "Speed is left to evolve as a by-product of familiarity with keeping the bodys integrity in state, and is not nearly as important as doing it right. "

    Is this similar to the theory behind Tai Chi, i.e., practice it slowly and the speed will be there when it's needed? I'm curious about the difference between "Proper Anatomical Alignment" versus asthetically pleasing body alignment. Does PAA look different than most of what we see normally? Would it look awkward and less graceful?
    Doc's "fighting stance" is he braced index position. Looks like the "left-over-right" salute, held out in front of the body. From that position, one might practice the lead hand backfist with a slap-chack...as the lead hand reaches the distance for striking, the rear hand slaps the front of the lead hand shoulder joint. It provides a kind of temporary check-ligament, providing support over the surface of the joint...the "ball" of the ball and socket glides towards the front of the body, as if considering dislocating in that direction if given the chance. People sense this unconsciously, and avoid gonig into the backfist "balls out". They hold back. Slapping yourself over the front of the shoulder joint as the backfist reaches full extension gives the ball of the humerus something to push against at full range. Hence, you can whip that sucker out there with a mighty whack, and not hold back out of fear of self-destruction. Takes timing. Practice to get it right. But you gotta start slow, until you get the sense of exactly when that slap check has to hit to keep the shoulder in place. Before or after that moment, and great pain and potential injury occur.

    More to the point, with respect to aesthetics...If you had the chance to watch a vid of SL-4 guys going through the paces, you would notice that they APPEAR to be doing their self-defese techniques slower, and more robotically. It's a deceptive appearance, however. Technique sequences have indexes inserted throughout them...moments before, after, or between movements where the body is given a chance to check in with itself from head to toe. This creates a greater integrity and stability, leading to harder strikes and, ultimately, faster deliveries. But the look of it appears to be slower, due to the "pauses" between moves, during which indexes are "checked into". This also allows for paired rhythm. Lotsa kenpo guys will pop the nuts, and follow blindingly quick into an upward elbow aimed at the chin, descending because of the pop to the groin. Problem is, they get to moving so fast that they have thrown all their moves before the guys body has a chance to respond to the forst blow...so the rest hit at only partial effectiveness ratios, since the target has not optimally revealed itself yet. Now, the index not only realigns the body in prep for the next strike to be a really hard one, it also allows the opponents body to respopnd to being hit, and expose targets in reply to the first whack.

    SL-4, at first (until you catch what's going on) ain't as pretty to look at as the super-fast SD-tech competition guys. It's slower, more deliberate, and thick. Seems heavier; denser; slower than the slap-happy stuff. Then, after you've been around it a spell, and get an appreciation for the complexities at play, it just looks like solid kenpo. The super-fast motion kenpo stops looking impressive, and starts looking like someone trying really hard not to fall over as a result of moving too fast. You start seeing the lack of integrated strength. "Fast skin, but no bones." ..."That guy is really fast" changes to "That guy moves real quick, but I'm thinkin' he ain't hitting near as hard as he can or should."

    The Inward Hammerfist/Inward block from SL-4 is a good example. Takes a lot of detours on the way to contact, in the form of indexes. But each part of the detour is recruiting more muscles, bones, and neurologic tone into the final product. You have to take it slow at the start to get it right. Can't do it quick. After a couple of months, however, you find yourself doing it every bit as quick as the Motion Kenpo guys who throw it "point of origin to point of contact". But there is a huge difference in the amount of "thud" the SL-4 version lands with, compared to the point-of-origin-to-point-of-contact version. Longer, slower, heavier movement initially, that eventually becomes habit, and ends up every bit as fast as the quickie motions.

    The quickie guys are prettier to look at, but after learning to recognize when a person is moving from their optimal PAA, you also recognize the technique as weaker. As opposed to Tai Chi, in SL-4, you will eventually accomplish and train with the speed. Unlike standard kenpo, though, you remove the "in a hurry to get there" part. It just happens.

    Hope it helps.

    Regards,

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  17. #16
    PlatinumPi4u is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house
    Everyone should see what it's like to take on a Gracie in a friendly bout. Everyone should feel what it's like to get your fingers caught in one of Wally Jay's traps, and so on. In kenpo, everyone should do some sparring & training at Bob Whites (I hurl just trying to keep up with the beginners' class...truly awesome man, coach, & kenpoist), everyone....

    I trained at Bob Whites and i can definately testify on that... Special shouts to Mr. Salinas & Mr. Mcclure!

  18. #17
    Danjo's Avatar
    Danjo is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. White Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fullerton California
    Posts
    33
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house

    The quickie guys are prettier to look at, but after learning to recognize when a person is moving from their optimal PAA, you also recognize the technique as weaker. As opposed to Tai Chi, in SL-4, you will eventually accomplish and train with the speed. Unlike standard kenpo, though, you remove the "in a hurry to get there" part. It just happens.

    Hope it helps.

    Regards,

    D.
    This answers it pretty well I think. Thanks.
    1st degree Black Belt in Kajukenbo (Original Method) under Prof. John Bishop
    Bishop's Kajukenbo Academy, Diamond Bar, CA

  19. #18
    Doc's Avatar
    Doc
    Doc is online now
    AKI Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    8,184
    Thanks
    4,131
    Thanked 14,519 Times in 5,394 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjo
    This answers it pretty well I think. Thanks.
    I might add, that movements learned properly in the beginning and trained properly last a lifetime. You may stop regular training but the skill remains, along with the acquired internal energy.

    Also over time the indexes become smaller and less descernable, and eventually some will appear to disappear completely as they become internal.

    "To build the internal you must train the external until finally, they become one in the same." - Ed Parker Sr.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

  20. #19
    Danjo's Avatar
    Danjo is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. White Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fullerton California
    Posts
    33
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    I might add, that movements learned properly in the beginning and trained properly last a lifetime. You may stop regular training but the skill remains, along with the acquired internal energy.

    Also over time the indexes become smaller and less descernable, and eventually some will appear to disappear completely as they become internal.

    "To build the internal you must train the external until finally, they become one in the same." - Ed Parker Sr.
    Thanks for the information. I would like some clarification on the term, "Index" with regards to its meaning here. Does it have to with largeness of the move?
    1st degree Black Belt in Kajukenbo (Original Method) under Prof. John Bishop
    Bishop's Kajukenbo Academy, Diamond Bar, CA

  21. #20
    Doc's Avatar
    Doc
    Doc is online now
    AKI Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    8,184
    Thanks
    4,131
    Thanked 14,519 Times in 5,394 Posts

    Default Re: Sub-Level 4 Kenpo Concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjo
    Thanks for the information. I would like some clarification on the term, "Index" with regards to its meaning here. Does it have to with largeness of the move?
    In a sense, you are correct. To execute certain movements anatomically correct, the body must move through specific "indexes" to recruit/disassociate muscle groups, bone structure, and other tissues for maximum performance. This process involves what appears to be exaggerated movements and would violate Motion Kenpo-Karate linear interpreted "point of origin."

    In fact, this methodology in the beginning is not only equally as fast, but affords maximum effectiveness in strength, power, and structural integrity for beginning students and therefore instills confidence in their execution. Even more important, as the movements are learned and hard synaptic pathways created, the movements began to move more toward the internal, and the "indexes" become smaller and less obvious in some executions.

    This is one of the major confusions created in Motion Kenpo-Karate because students would "watch" Parker and attempt to mimic Parker in some cases, without any clear understanding of WHAT they were observing.

    In the beginning:

    1) First you must learn the PHONETICS of proper movement or INDEX.

    2) Than you learn the alphabet for SINGULAR EXECUTION.

    3) Than you learn to execute through the INDEX to perform the alphabet or PRINTING.
    A) Over time the PRINTING becomes smaller, and more consistent.

    4) Than you physically move into the CURSIVE STAGE where your PRINTING movements begin to round the corners and start to flow as you learn the rudiments of WRITING.
    A) But like anyone new to writing, the rounded corners are exaggerated as you continue to recruit all of the necessary anatomical groups and principles for maximum effect as your efficiency improves.

    5) Ultimately the writing becomes a SCRIPT and the movement flows effortless.
    A) With SCRIPTED movement you know what you are going to execute and what you need to do to make it happen with ASSUMPTION OF SUCCESS because of the knowledge contained therein. This is a philosophically different approach from Motion Kenpo-Karate, which operates under an ASSUMPTION OF FAILURE perspective.

    6) Finally SOME movements become natural SHORTHAND.
    A) These movements are now so internalized, the body internally configures itself with little external movement or effort to reach the same level of efficiency. However without the external movement over TIME, the internal energy sometimes described as “chi,” cannot be obtained. This why there is no “chi” in Motion Kenpo-Karate teaching.

    This methodology is not something new, except to those who study the anomalous Motion Kenpo-Karate that eliminates long term mechanical efficiency for personal preference execution. This method is Ed Parker's old Chinese Kenpo Teachings updated to modern training methods and understandings to, (no Karate attached) Ed Parker's AMERICAN KENPO. This is not secret information, but simply info Motion Kenpo-Karate doesn't use and was developed, in part, after KENPO-KARATE and concurrent with Parker’s personal CHINESE-KENPO and MOTION-KENPO KARATE.

    A viewing of Ed Parker on film and video will clearly show all of these same stages of development as he grew and evolved over the years. The problem is the MOTION KENPO-KARATE students observed Parker in the later stages of his personal development before he passed. They mistakenly presumed HIS SHORTHAND movement would yield them the same efficiency. The problem is THEIR SHORTHAND movement lack the foundation and time necessary for proper inculcation into the body memory to support the function. The stages of learning and subsequent execution may not be cut short for expedient or “commercial” applications. Parker knew this and didn’t apply it to Motion Kenpo-Karate along with a plethora of other hard principles, over and above the conceptual based vehicle that it is by design.

    Instructors from other more traditional Chinese styles, as well as others already know this, and it would not be considered anything special. They may not express it the same way, but there is a reason these arts are "forms" based with, what appears to be, exaggerated movements. However when you look at knowledgeable seasoned instructors, they seem to accomplish a lot with very little movement.

    This is not “secret” information, but may appear to be if you study a style, any style, that excludes this type of training for commercial, expeditious appeal and “saleability.” When you look at the kenpo videos on the net, you begin to understand “why” they look the way they do. It isn’t all bad instruction. Some of it is the flawed vehicle that lesser instructors can not raise to a higher level of efficiency because of their own lack of knowledge, not present in the art they have chosen.

    In real life their are always tradeoffs. You can go to a "trade school" and get a "certificate" in a skill. Or you make get a slower, more deliberate, well rounded education that includes those skills, and get a "Diploma." When you go into a local strip mall full of kids and choose Commercial Motion Kenpo-Karate, you trade long term skill, knowledge, and efficiency for quick, and not in all cases, effective self defense skills. Unfortunately you can not have it both ways.

    I think Ed Parker said it best himself. “Let TIME be your measurement to SKILL and KNOWLEDGE.” “QUICK” general skills violate that approach because it uses, conceptual information. Parker also said, “General information always produces general results.” I couldn’t have said it better.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Meet the Kenpo Adicts
    By dubljay in forum Meet & Greet
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 02-28-2007, 11:44 PM
  2. About Master Larry Tatum
    By Bob Hubbard in forum Parkers Kenpo (EPAK) - General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-14-2005, 09:55 PM
  3. Kenpo News Forum - Rules - Read Before Posting Here!
    By Bob Hubbard in forum Kenpo News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-14-2005, 07:15 PM
  4. Bio: SGM Edmund K. Parker Sr.
    By Bob Hubbard in forum Parkers Kenpo (EPAK) - General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-13-2005, 11:42 PM

Search tags for this page (caching method: memcache)

kenpo sl4
,

kenpo sub level four

,

kenpo sub-level four accelerated moves

,
sl4 kenpo schools
,

sub level 4 kenpo

,
sub level 4 kenpo belt system
,
sub level four kenpo
,
sub level kenpo
,
sub level-4 kenpo
,
sub-level four karate
,
sublevel 4 kenpo
,
sublevel kenpo
Click on a term to search our site for related topics.