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Thread: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

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    Default Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV
    (re-posted from Facebook)


    If you choose to read this whole post, here is my disclaimer:

    My message box and phone continue to get blown up over the following issues…

    First off, I am not your bartender, priest or counselor so PLEASE cry to me no more! This serves as my response to you all:
    I have many opinions about what has transpired since the passing of my father and subsequent passing of my mother. I will attempt to share a few of my thoughts in this post.

    I am writing this to lend perspective to my status with my fathers' estate also known as Kam IV. Kam IV Road was the name of the street Ed Parker’s parents lived on in Honolulu, Hawaii. It was short for King Kamehameha IV. So the following are some of the reasons that I am NOT involved in the Parker Family Estate aka Kam IV. To say that I love my father is a huge understatement. My whole universe and career was my father then and now. It will forever be so. I honor, love and will respect my dad, his legacy and our Parker family lineage for eternity. Now with that being said, let me say something about the past and the present.

    After my father passed I was asked to comply with things regarding the Parker family business that I did not agree with. My father would often discuss with me what he wanted to be done after he passed away but the female side of the family opposed my thoughts and opinions, following his death up to the present, it is the same. After my father passed away the numbers went like this: 5 females to 1 male, with me being voted out every time. After several years of this, I knew it was a waste of my spirit and energy to offer my perspective, so I opted out completely.

    The line of demarcation was drawn in the sand the day my father died and for 28 years things have been status quo with nothing changing up to this day. This division rips my soul in half. The thinking of the females in the Parker family was to preserve the legacy of my father in a traditional way. My passion was to perpetuate his legacy in a progressive way. Both sides felt that they were doing the right thing. There are no winners here, only losers. The female side of the Parker family chose to seek legal counsel to address some of their concerns. Lawsuits were advised by lawyers, and the process good or bad began 28 years ago, so if you find yourself to be part of these ongoing lawsuits regarding my father’s legacy, I have two things to say:

    1. I was the first to be sued by my fathers' estate.

    2. I say, welcome to the club.

    I have been exhausted by legal threats nitpicking the details of what my father supposedly wanted and all the different interpretations and semantics thereof since December 15, 1990, and EVERYONE wanted to bend my ear. All I knew is that the full-time career I had with my father died with him, as did the closeness of my family. My father was the glue that held everything together. There are tears over lost patches; rightfully so. There is a protocol to follow if you want to keep the patch. You guys still have hope. My tears were over a lost family. How do I get that back?! Bitterly I was forced to move on. And I did. I was labeled a heretic for moving on. I got over it.

    We all have our own life. I chose to live mine my own way and create my own legacy as there weren’t too many other options available. In my honest opinion (and Hawaiians always say it straight) I have lost more from my involvement with Kenpo than anyone in Kenpo combined. I lost an entire family, my father, my mother, my 4 sisters and all their children. I had to reinvent my career from the day of his death. I have also lost huge groups of friends I grew up with. To be clear I do not receive any money from the estate whatsoever. Every dollar I earn is of my own doing. YES, the Parker family IS divided and has been for 28 years. So please know that when you say the family is causing issues, know that it is only part of the Parker family.

    I disagree 100% with the method of execution being applied with regards to Kam IV. But that is not my call. Nor is it yours. My father passed the rights of the estate to my mother. Good or bad, my mother was a religious zealot and believed she was inspired to remove me from the business. I love my mother but I obviously don’t agree with her interpretation on that point.
    Upon my mother’s death, the rights of the estate were turned over to my oldest sister Darlene with the request that I am removed from the family business and any inheritance that I received was strictly up to my 4 sisters and not me. My sisters honored my mothers' death wish. I believe with all my heart my father felt the opposite of these choices. But again not my call. This whole thing has divided my family AND the Kenpo community. I hate this result.

    I HATE IT!!!!

    I love my family and I firmly believe that they are only following bad advise from greedy people who thrive on the ignorant for their personal gain; specifically, the lawyers as they seem to have had a full-time job with the estate and the last family paycheck I received was in 1991. From my family’s perspective, they are only doing what they feel prompted to do what they feel is right. They are willing to spend, sell, or barter anything to accomplish their goal even if that means going broke for the sake of their mother and father. Noble but foolish.

    I spent an exorbitant amount of my life and time for over a decade working on my father’s 12 businesses. I worked well beyond full time, right by his side non-stop till he died. Of all of his children, I was the only one who made his career my career. I knew my father intimately as that was my role with him from the time he called me out of my career path in Hawaii while I was working on the set of Magnum PI. To quote my dad, he said in that fateful phone call, “Son, I need you to help me document my life’s vision and work because I think I’m going to die.”
    That was in 1983. So I did what a good son would do. I left my chosen career path as an artist to be at my father’s side and I stayed there for nearly a decade up to his passing.

    I will state unequivocally that I know for a fact the current state of affairs in his legacy is not what he wanted for his art. I knew what he wanted as that was what I was supposed to do. He specifically wanted me to see through his eyes. He embedded his vision in my mind and that is and was the main source of my pain as I couldn’t do anything about it once he was gone.

    I think that not only is the estate handling this wrong but so is the Kenpo community he built. I cannot disagree more with the results of it all. It is ugly, nasty and leaves a horrible legacy. One I’m sure my dad AND I are equally ashamed of. At this point in time, I have no answers. Just emotion. My whole life from my birth to my dad’s death was designated to work the family business. My father made sure he did not neglect me prior to his death. I have a legal document stating that I own half of his publishing business. I chose my own path when I turned away from the lawyers and court cases aimed at dissembling the Parker family itself.

    I chose not to countersue when my mother and sisters chose to sue me out of the estate. What I received from my father was not monetary. I received his name Edmund Kealoha Parker and that to me, in the end, was the better part. His students received his wisdom and knowledge and he asked that they combine it with their knowledge to perpetuate from where he last left it. My father was a progressive. If you are still doing what he did 30 years ago you are not doing his legacy justice as you are a traditionalist.

    In the book that I helped my dad publish, The Zen of Kenpo, he stated; “If my art is the same 10 years after my passing, you have not done my art justice.” The best way to avoid the fight is not to be there. If all one does is find oneself in the middle of constant fighting then your life must change. So make the choice one way or another. Fight a no-win scenario or pursue a win-win option for peace. Choosing to remove myself from the battles and the war was the more favorable option. I couldn’t train in Kenpo without someone getting pissed off as to who I trained with, within my family, or from within the Kenpo community.

    To put this in a Star Trek term, I found myself in a classic “Kobayashi Maru.” A no-win scenario. The martial arts community can be very dysfunctional and extremely self-destructive. People would tell me who I should support and who I shouldn’t. My father advised me to be well aware of that behavior. He called it “Samoan Crabs.” He said fisherman knew they never had to put a lid on a bucket of two or more crabs as they would always pull down the lead crab trying to get out.

    Ever since I was a young boy, my passion was artwork. I chose to support my dad. I did so every day while he was alive. I chose to continue that support until I was 50 years old. At that point, I said the first 50 years was my dad’s, the last 50 are mine. I am in year 8 of my own 50 year stretch and loving life on the other side. That stated I couldn’t be more grateful that 8 years into my own journey I have my artwork to paint on a peaceful mountaintop with my wife Baer by my side as we write and film the peaceful self-defense curriculum that I developed on my own over the past thirty years. This is all a direct contrast to the stress of my first 50 years of life. I was legitimately angry and bitter.

    I am angry no more.

    To wrap this up, I am deeply saddened by the current state of Ed Parker’s Kenpo. I am sad on many levels, The Kenpo community is not filled with saints. Some of the most crooked, morally bankrupt people I have ever had the displeasure of meeting I met in the Kenpo community, so please know there are demons on both sides. So even though I am sad about the advice my sisters have followed there are two sides to the story here. Some of the most negative unsavory entities are why my family chose their current direction.

    My advice to my fathers legacy: My father is best honored when his legacy stands on their own two feet and cuts their own path and do their own thing. That is how I choose to honor my father.


    How will you honor him?
    jdinca likes this.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    I read that yesterday on Facebook, very interesting.

    It was prompted after Bob White put up a post about KamIV and people taking the Parker patch off their gi's, etc. He got a lot of comments about it, both for and against KamIV. So Ed Parker Jr. felt he needed to get his story out there to clear the air some.

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Tragic.


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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    KAM IV brought litigation against a studio in Massachusetts. That was recently settled in KAM IV's favor; at significant cost to the school.

    Also recently, Ms. DiRienzo (formerly Ms. Congliandro) posted a short video about removing the patch. Perhaps it was this video that prompted Mr. White's post.

    I only once met one of the Parker daughters. It was at the 2013 tournament in Boston, Massachusetts. That daughter was there as a V.I.P. Five years later, something significant has changed.

    I think it is odd that these two things are taking place with Massachusetts schools. I can't help but wonder why they first suit was filed against someone all the way across the country; unless the intent was to make it difficult and expensive for the defendant.

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    It does seem rather odd to go after the school that they did, seeing as that school is rather small, although I have a theory.

    My instructor told me that what really prompted the Parker daughters to start taking action roughly 4 years ago was the "50th anniversary" tournament held in Long Beach. Whomever organized that tournament advertised it as the 50th anniversary tournament implying that it had something to do with Parkers. Well, it didn't have anything to do with them and whatever money may have been made from that tournament of course didn't go to them.

    So, later that fall, fall of 2014, you started to see KamIV making themselves known.

    Now, with regards to the recent lawsuit and Ms. DiRienzo's video, my theory is she is one of the directors of IKKA International, an organization that is putting on a tournament this summer in the Boston area.

    I think KamIV is making it loud and clear that they know who is out there teaching in Massachusetts, who is "wearing the patch", even the little guys, and in turn they certainly are aware of the event the IKKA International is holding.

    I wonder if the ultimate goal might be to pressure IKKA International into eventually closing up shop to avoid the possibility of a lawsuit.
    Last edited by Crouching Tiger; 03-11-2018 at 12:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    (Correction, the name of the organization is IKKA Kenpo International and their tournament is next month, not this summer.)

    www.bostonikc.com

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Crouching Tiger View Post
    It does seem rather odd to go after the school that they did, seeing as that school is rather small, although I have a theory.

    My instructor told me that what really prompted the Parker daughters to start taking action roughly 4 years ago was the "50th anniversary" tournament held in Long Beach. Whomever organized that tournament advertised it as the 50th anniversary tournament implying that it had something to do with Parkers. Well, it didn't have anything to do with them and whatever money may have been made from that tournament of course didn't go to them.

    So, later that fall, fall of 2014, you started to see KamIV making themselves known.

    Now, with regards to the recent lawsuit and Ms. DiRienzo's video, my theory is she is one of the directors of IKKA International, an organization that is putting on a tournament this summer in the Boston area.

    I think KamIV is making it loud and clear that they know who is out there teaching in Massachusetts, who is "wearing the patch", even the little guys, and in turn they certainly are aware of the event the IKKA International is holding.

    I wonder if the ultimate goal might be to pressure IKKA International into eventually closing up shop to avoid the possibility of a lawsuit.
    The majority of the Parker Family exclusive of Edmund found it necessary to take control of the "Parker" name for legal reasons. Some were throwing tournaments around the world using Mr. Parker's name to promote their personal enterprises. I personally see nothing wrong with controlling the family name, but this thing about not wearing the patch seems extreme. If I purchased a patch from Mr. Parker, then it is mine to do whatever I want with it. It is my property to wear as I see fit as long as I don't use his name to promote anything. But, the family does have the right and obligation to protect the name ethically and legally, within reason.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    It's not the patch that determines value but the man or woman the patch is placed upon.

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    The majority of the Parker Family exclusive of Edmund found it necessary to take control of the "Parker" name for legal reasons. Some were throwing tournaments around the world using Mr. Parker's name to promote their personal enterprises. I personally see nothing wrong with controlling the family name, but this thing about not wearing the patch seems extreme. If I purchased a patch from Mr. Parker, then it is mine to do whatever I want with it. It is my property to wear as I see fit as long as I don't use his name to promote anything. But, the family does have the right and obligation to protect the name ethically and legally, within reason.
    controlling the family name does seem reasonable, but I think it is also reasonable to mention Mr. Parker by other people, due to the lineage and the system they practice. It is completely unreasonable to expect that other people cannot mention his name in the context of their training and teaching.

    if Mr. Parker was your teacher, or you trained in a lineage that traces back to Mr. Parker, and you train in a system that came from his ideas, I think it is completely reasonable to say so to one’s students and in advertising materials for the school and in discussions about the method. It is utterly unreasonable for an entity to demand that everyone simply stop using Mr. Parker’s name.

    i don’t have a dog in this race and I don’t know what exactly the KAM IV is demanding, but it is absolutely reasonable that other people can use the name within certain contexts.

    the truth is it’s own defense, as I seem to have heard around here from time to time...
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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    The majority of the Parker Family exclusive of Edmund found it necessary to take control of the "Parker" name for legal reasons. Some were throwing tournaments around the world using Mr. Parker's name to promote their personal enterprises. I personally see nothing wrong with controlling the family name, but this thing about not wearing the patch seems extreme. If I purchased a patch from Mr. Parker, then it is mine to do whatever I want with it. It is my property to wear as I see fit as long as I don't use his name to promote anything. But, the family does have the right and obligation to protect the name ethically and legally, within reason.
    if you have to remove the patch, perhaps you can sue to require that KAM IV must buy the patch back from you if they want to insist that you give up something that you received from their father. If you bought it from Mr. Parker before he died, then the patch is now a rare collectors item and must be worth upwards of...$20,000?

    two can play at this game. Make it too expensive for them to pursue such nonsense.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    if you have to remove the patch, perhaps you can sue to require that KAM IV must buy the patch back from you if they want to insist that you give up something that you received from their father. If you bought it from Mr. Parker before he died, then the patch is now a rare collectors item and must be worth upwards of...$20,000?

    two can play at this game. Make it too expensive for them to pursue such nonsense.
    Even if you had a patch Mr. Parker autographed personally it wouldn't be worth very much. It's worth something to us as martial artists, it's worth something to those who knew him, but that's about it.

    If you tried to sue KamIV for something like that they would just counter-sue you for attorney fees which would add up to thousands more than a patch.

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    controlling the family name does seem reasonable, but I think it is also reasonable to mention Mr. Parker by other people, due to the lineage and the system they practice. It is completely unreasonable to expect that other people cannot mention his name in the context of their training and teaching.

    if Mr. Parker was your teacher, or you trained in a lineage that traces back to Mr. Parker, and you train in a system that came from his ideas, I think it is completely reasonable to say so to one’s students and in advertising materials for the school and in discussions about the method. It is utterly unreasonable for an entity to demand that everyone simply stop using Mr. Parker’s name.

    i don’t have a dog in this race and I don’t know what exactly the KAM IV is demanding, but it is absolutely reasonable that other people can use the name within certain contexts.
    I don't think the mentioning of Mr. Parker in training and teaching is the issue. I don't think the wearing of the patch is even the issue, at least on your gi in person.

    I think the issue is his name, likeness, the patch, the initials IKKA, and the Universal Pattern symbol, in any advertising and written materials.

    You could talk about Mr. Parker all you want while teaching and wear your gi with his patch while teaching, but anything on the internet or your website where you advertise your business is restricted.

    (at least that is my understanding)

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Crouching Tiger View Post
    Even if you had a patch Mr. Parker autographed personally it wouldn't be worth very much. It's worth something to us as martial artists, it's worth something to those who knew him, but that's about it.

    If you tried to sue KamIV for something like that they would just counter-sue you for attorney fees which would add up to thousands more than a patch.
    It’s worth whatever you decide it’s worth. That doesn’t mean anyone will buy it from you on the collectors market.

    the point isn’t to assign true monetary value. The point is to make an outlandish claim and a demand that becomes expensive for them to defend against.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Crouching Tiger View Post
    I don't think the mentioning of Mr. Parker in training and teaching is the issue. I don't think the wearing of the patch is even the issue, at least on your gi in person.

    I think the issue is his name, likeness, the patch, the initials IKKA, and the Universal Pattern symbol, in any advertising and written materials.

    You could talk about Mr. Parker all you want while teaching and wear your gi with his patch while teaching, but anything on the internet or your website where you advertise your business is restricted.

    (at least that is my understanding)
    b

    and if these things are all part of the method that you learned from him or downstream from him, then I still hold it is reasonable to be able to use them. The Universal Pattern certainly. Not the IKKA if they own that organization and you are not a member. But that’s is a different issue.

    pictures of people exist. You can’t sue to remove them all from circulation or disallow others from using those images. An exception would be if the pictures were taken secretly and without the person’s knowledge. But if a picture was taken in the public domain, you can’t try to pull them back.

    i think this is going to backfire on KAM IV at some point.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Well, I'm not sure if it will backfire on them or not. Here's why, at least these are some of the thoughts and questions that have popped into my head the last day or two.

    1. Does anyone know how much it is to join the IKKA?
    Is it some huge amount of money or is it a reasonable fee?

    2. If it is reasonable, why not just join?
    What's the big deal about joining the IKKA?
    If you want to avoid any problems, just join the darn thing.

    3. Can you be a member of two organizations?
    I can understand where some one wouldn't want to give up membership in an organization they already belong to, but can you be a member of two organizations?

    4. How long did the IKKA exist after Mr. Parker died?
    People didn't seem to have a problem being members after he died, why not just join again?
    Sure, its been more than 20 years, but just look at it this way, you've avoided paying membership fees for 20 years, time to step up and join again.

    5. If you really appreciate what Mr. Parker did and you want to carry on his legacy, does in not make sense to be a member of the group that legally carries his name?
    Think about the future, think about the long term. 20 or 30 years from now, saying "I knew Mr. Parker personally, he was my teacher" won't be heard as much.
    If you want to be a part of his legacy, being part of the organization he founded seems like a good place to start.

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Crouching Tiger View Post
    Well, I'm not sure if it will backfire on them or not. Here's why, at least these are some of the thoughts and questions that have popped into my head the last day or two.

    1. Does anyone know how much it is to join the IKKA?
    Is it some huge amount of money or is it a reasonable fee?

    2. If it is reasonable, why not just join?
    What's the big deal about joining the IKKA?
    If you want to avoid any problems, just join the darn thing.

    3. Can you be a member of two organizations?
    I can understand where some one wouldn't want to give up membership in an organization they already belong to, but can you be a member of two organizations?

    4. How long did the IKKA exist after Mr. Parker died?
    People didn't seem to have a problem being members after he died, why not just join again?
    Sure, its been more than 20 years, but just look at it this way, you've avoided paying membership fees for 20 years, time to step up and join again.

    5. If you really appreciate what Mr. Parker did and you want to carry on his legacy, does in not make sense to be a member of the group that legally carries his name?
    Think about the future, think about the long term. 20 or 30 years from now, saying "I knew Mr. Parker personally, he was my teacher" won't be heard as much.
    If you want to be a part of his legacy, being part of the organization he founded seems like a good place to start.
    Why does anyone need to join their organization just to keep doing what you have been doing all along, before they decided to get in the way?

    i would like to trademark the letter e, both capital and lower case. I want royalties from everyone who uses it.

    it can’t be done. It’s already out there in wide use.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Crouching Tiger View Post

    3. Can you be a member of two organizations?
    I can understand where some one wouldn't want to give up membership in an organization they already belong to, but can you be a member of two organizations?
    Well, I just answered one of my questions. I read the IKKA application on the Ed Parker Sr. website and it says you cannot be a member of two organizations.

    It still doesn't say how much it is each year to be a member.

    Does anyone know how much some of the other organizations charge yearly to be a member?

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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Crouching Tiger View Post
    Well, I just answered one of my questions. I read the IKKA application on the Ed Parker Sr. website and it says you cannot be a member of two organizations.

    It still doesn't say how much it is each year to be a member.

    Does anyone know how much some of the other organizations charge yearly to be a member?
    I do not know the answer to that. But I ask, why be a member of any organization?
    Michael


    de gustibus non disputante est.
    Negative Douche Bag Number One

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to flying crane For This Useful Post:

    nelson (03-11-2018)

  25. #19
    nelson is offline
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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Didn't Groucho say he'd never join an organization that would accept him as member.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to nelson For This Useful Post:

    flying crane (03-11-2018)

  27. #20
    Crouching Tiger is offline
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    Default Re: Ed Parker Jr. vs Kam IV

    Any idea if these guys are still in business? (Probably not, their website seems rather dated.)

    MAX Dojo -- American Kenpo Karate

    This is a good example of people using "IKKA" and "Ed Parker" in their advertising, etc.

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