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Thread: Instinctive Blocking

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    Default Re: Instinctive Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    OK you seem to be focused on your interpretation of Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate, so that gives it context. While the "double factor" is talked about in EPKK, the interpretation has to come from whomever is teaching.
    It would make more sense to me if the second move were meant to capture the attacking limb. (As in the combo generally known as "Brush, Grab, Strike".)

    Coming from the 5 Family/Animal Chinese Kenpo perspective as I was taught, there was never an actual double factor but in fact, there was a "triple factor" executed before you have reached the actual "block."
    Are you getting at what I was getting at in my previous paragraph? Regrettably, I have only fleeting familiarity with Ng Ga Kuen and the styles constituting it.

    A reminder that EPKK is an outline severely limited to its conceptual base, and only has meat on the bone from someone who can put it there. A good example can be found in "Short Form One." I have never seen an interpretation by anyone that was actually correct that contained all of the information available in that form. For most, even the execution is severely limited and mostly dysfunctional, as most seem to perform some hybrid cross between the Japanese roots of the blocks, and a poor modern interpretation. The same could be said of Long Form One as well, with the "triple factor" forming the base of execution and the "block" taking on a potential offensive nature before the counter punch. But, like anything else, it depends upon who teaches you and their level of knowledge sir.
    I have heard it said that the first few forms are not meant for martial applications at all but only good for drilling some basic moves. I don't quite agree, but surely, Short 1 doesn't look like it's loaded with secret applications. However, its simple appearance may in fact be deceiving. There is considerably more to Heian 1 (Pinan 2) than meets the eye. (As it happens, I have mentioned hidden moves in forms on another thread just a couple of hours ago.)

    So, what information is there hidden in Short 1, that is not generally understood?

    We must define "vital targets" to start. In my understanding and the way I was taught, EPKK doesn't attack "vital targets" in the sense it attacks soft tissue to insure self defense viability. "Vital Targets" were always presented to me as a higher level of information, and that anyone who walked in the door had most of the skill they needed to poke someone in the eye already, which is why EPKK focused on soft tissue assaults to begin with. This was much like the short term self defense courses it was based upon. Someone grabs your shoulder, hit them in the throat, smash them in the groin, and poke them in the eye. The last time Mr. Parker discussed "vital targets" in the sense I believe you mean, was in the his Kenpo Karate book published in 1961. Later when he created Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate the term took on a different meaning.
    Not sure what you mean by this, Doc. I had another look into Kenpo Karate. The only thing I saw relevant to our discussion there is a chart of 62 "vital points", which Mr. Parker defines as "vital areas and pressure points". Much later, in Infinite Insights, Vol. IV, he gives a nearly identical chart of 62 "vital targets".

    I used "vital targets" as understood in many MA books I read, more or less coinciding with your "soft targets", with the possible addition of the knees.

    And yet none of these contain the higher information of the Chinese Arts, and were never meant to be. EPKK in many ways is derived from these arts or similar interpretations, and I was fortunate to know two of the progenitors of these arts and understand their focus. Splashing Hands as presently constituted is a poor derivative of Mok Gar, while JKD is a "sparring based" open interpretation of a conceptual training regimen

    Yeah it is a different "kenpo" system born out of necessity because of the way i was taught. I was never taught EPKK by Mr. Parker, and my initial lessons predate the existence of that material. Nevertheless, I was taught to interpret it should I choose to, and it does indeed contain the roots of some very useful and valuable information provided you have someone who can transcend the outline and put some meat on them bones. Those who are a product of the system, unfortunately do not have the capacity to do that.
    Okay, that makes me feel less regretful about not having started out with Kenpo but gradually integrating it into my existing knowledge base (as Mr. Parker would put it) which straddles several other martial arts.

    In regard of our topic, are you referring to the use of acupuncture points (kyusho) in fighting? Which are essentially a somewhat different story from the targets of Mr. Parker's charts, although they coincide in many cases. That Mr. Parker had an interest in Dim Mak (amongst other aspects of the Chinese internal arts) I heard from Erle Montaigue, who welcomed Mr. Parker as a guest in his school on some occasions (from a personal email communication).

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    Default Re: Instinctive Blocking

    "I have heard it said that the first few forms are not meant for martial applications at all but only good for drilling some basic moves. I don't quite agree, but surely, Short 1 doesn't look like it's loaded with secret applications. However, its simple appearance may in fact be deceiving. There is considerably more to Heian 1 (Pinan 2) than meets the eye. (As it happens, I have mentioned hidden moves in forms on another thread just a couple of hours ago.)

    So, what information is there hidden in Short 1, that is not generally understood?"

    The main thing is to do it correctly, footwork, blocking everything. Many, many kenpo people gloss over this because they find it boring or simple. Their loss.
    Long Form 1, to me contains one of the most important things in martial arts, the transition from a neutral, or side stance to a forward bow or other type of forward stance, with hip rotation and a reverse punch. Again, something many think is a simple thing, and they gloss over it, not doing it well. Gor years.
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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    Default Re: Instinctive Blocking

    That reminds me of how a bunch of Shotokan black belts were once asked to perform Heian shodan (Pinan nidan in other styles), apparently the most simple kata. They messed it up big time...

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

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    Default Re: Instinctive Blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    "I have heard it said that the first few forms are not meant for martial applications at all but only good for drilling some basic moves. I don't quite agree, but surely, Short 1 doesn't look like it's loaded with secret applications. However, its simple appearance may in fact be deceiving. There is considerably more to Heian 1 (Pinan 2) than meets the eye. (As it happens, I have mentioned hidden moves in forms on another thread just a couple of hours ago.)

    So, what information is there hidden in Short 1, that is not generally understood?"

    The main thing is to do it correctly, footwork, blocking everything. Many, many kenpo people gloss over this because they find it boring or simple. Their loss.
    Long Form 1, to me contains one of the most important things in martial arts, the transition from a neutral, or side stance to a forward bow or other type of forward stance, with hip rotation and a reverse punch. Again, something many think is a simple thing, and they gloss over it, not doing it well. Gor years.
    It is not a simple answer by any means, and there is no such things as basics. However, a persons level of understanding may be at a "basic" level. All of the forms up to and through Short 3 are functional and contain valuable information. Forms Long 3 forward are forms created by Mr. Parker specifically for competition.

    I have taken just the foot work from "Short 1" and taught, and continue to teach valuable lessons of structure and biomechanical movement for years, without even getting to the blocks, which I could do the same with. These are not "secrets." Funny how in the martial arts, if someone doesn't know something, it somehow is a "secret." Maybe its not a secret, maybe someone isn't as knowledgeable as they think they are on the subject. It seems awfully arrogant to suggest, "If I don't know it, it must have been withheld from me as a secret." My students examine and perform what most know as Short 1, on a regular basis every night to start, and they continue to be amazed at the information that is "revealed." The amount of information contained in Short One if someone is taught to do it right, would blow most minds. Maybe, teaching the real art is incompatible with the commercial Kenpo Karate that most are familiar with, therefore by design through its outline form, information is just "missing."

    I'm "sensitive" to this because many of you know how some have suggested that I claim to have gotten all the "secrets" that others somehow didn't get. For me they are not secrets, but information I worked and trained for. I am not responsible for what others don't know or what teachers do or do not teach to those who considered themselves students.

    And while I'm at it, "Fix your feet Mark!"
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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